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Thread: Projected Arbitration Salaries

  1. #46
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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think that’s debatable that Hoffman was good as a reliever. But the issue is less where they fall in the pecking order and more that there should be an urge to get better. Not return most of the relief corps that sank the team’s chances in the first 3 months of the season. Just because Hoffman and Sims weren’t the absolute dregs of a bottom of the barrel bullpen doesn’t mean they represent anything like a solution. And they should be focusing like crazy on upgrades, up and down the bullpen. But they did nothing last off-season so I’m not exactly holding my breath.
    The solution won’t be coming from the last guys on the staff. There you look for usefulness at a low cost, like Hoffman.

    The solution should come from your main relievers who are considerably more expensive. Hoffman is not in that conversation.


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  3. #47
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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The solution won’t be coming from the last guys on the staff. There you look for usefulness at a low cost, like Hoffman.

    The solution should come from your main relievers who are considerably more expensive. Hoffman is not in that conversation.
    I think shooting for the absolute best bullpen is where we should start. Not settle, even in the bottom spots, if humanly possible. It’s a cost effective way to really really improve the team. If we have to settle for Hoffman as the last man out of the pen, so be it. Just don’t lock in 4-5 guys from last year and then wonder why they’re not an improved team in June 2022.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think shooting for the absolute best bullpen is where we should start. Not settle, even in the bottom spots, if humanly possible. It’s a cost effective way to really really improve the team. If we have to settle for Hoffman as the last man out of the pen, so be it. Just don’t lock in 4-5 guys from last year and then wonder why they’re not an improved team in June 2022.
    I agree wit this. And ironically, it's probably the cheapest way to improve the team too. You could add several really good arms for less than the cost of one big bat.

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  7. #49
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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think shooting for the absolute best bullpen is where we should start. Not settle, even in the bottom spots, if humanly possible. It’s a cost effective way to really really improve the team. If we have to settle for Hoffman as the last man out of the pen, so be it. Just don’t lock in 4-5 guys from last year and then wonder why they’re not an improved team in June 2022.
    It's not really cost effective. Relative sure things in the pen cost money. I'm sure we'd all do a jig if the Reds get Andrew Chafin, but he's about to get very rich. You can unearth gems and get big value from reclamation projects. That's the cost effective way to try it, but it often goes wrong and leads to Little Apples jokes decades later.

    And which 4-5 guys are you talking about? I get that argument for Amir Garrett and Michael Lorenzen, but it would be kind of looney not to keep Cessa.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    It's not really cost effective. Relative sure things in the pen cost money. I'm sure we'd all do a jig if the Reds get Andrew Chafin, but he's about to get very rich. You can unearth gems and get big value from reclamation projects. That's the cost effective way to try it, but it often goes wrong and leads to Little Apples jokes decades later.

    And which 4-5 guys are you talking about? I get that argument for Amir Garrett and Michael Lorenzen, but it would be kind of looney not to keep Cessa.
    The Brewers are great with reclamations. They’re good with turnover too. They wouldn’t return Sims, Hoffman, Doolittle, Brach just because they’re cheap and here on the roster.

    Cessa wasn’t the one choking the season away.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    I'm good with bringing Sims back as long as he is healthy. Hoffman is an easy non-tender the more I think about it. Reds will have Santillan, Moreta, Warren, O'Brien, Sanmartin, and maybe even Vlad as very cheap pre-arb options, as well as Sims, Cessa and Wilson all likely returning. Hoffman is just so mediocre and I'm not really agreeing with the "his stuff played up in the bullpen" chatter that I'm sensing here. He's bad, Reds have other cheap options, use that money elsewhere.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Brewers are great with reclamations. They’re good with turnover too. They wouldn’t return Sims, Hoffman, Doolittle, Brach just because they’re cheap and here on the roster.

    Cessa wasn’t the one choking the season away.
    Doolittle and Brach are already gone. They'll probably keep Sims (3.00 FIP). Hoffman strikes me as a wild card.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  12. #53
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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Brewers are great with reclamations. They’re good with turnover too. They wouldn’t return Sims, Hoffman, Doolittle, Brach just because they’re cheap and here on the roster.

    Cessa wasn’t the one choking the season away.
    Brewers would stick with Sims, he has good stuff

    Plus he K'd 14.6 per nine and had the lowest WHIP for a Red with 40 IP

    You know when you lead off a post with a declaration intended to point out how bad the Reds are and you say that they should cut two players they cut during the season I tend to think you are not really paying attention, but instead just shooting arrows at the Reds no matter what.
    Last edited by westofyou; 10-18-2021 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Brewers would stick with Sims, he has good stuff

    Plus he K'd 14.6 per nine and had the lowest WHIP for a Red with 40 IP

    You know when you lead off a post with a declaration intended to point out how bad the Reds are and you say that they should cut two players they cut during the season I tend to think you are not really paying attention, but instead just shooting arrows at the Reds no matter what.
    There’s nothing to stop the Reds from re-signing them and it wouldn’t be unheard of if they did. Remember the bang-up job they did last off-season.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    There’s nothing to stop the Reds from re-signing them and it wouldn’t be unheard of if they did. Remember the bang-up job they did last off-season.
    So your complaint at the moment is they might re-sign guys they've released.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    So your complaint at the moment is they might re-sign guys they've released.
    Until they replace them with better talent, yeah. Give this organization an inch, they’ll embarrass you for 26 years.

    Sims and Cessa haven’t re-signed so they’re technically not on the team either.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 10-18-2021 at 07:50 PM.

  18. #57
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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Until they replace them with better talent, yeah. Give this organization an inch, they’ll embarrass you for 26 years.

    Sims and Cessa haven’t re-signed so they’re technically not on the team either.
    This is spectacular counterfactual gobbledygook. The Reds have full control of Sims and Cessa. They currently reside on the team's 40-man roster, which means they are 100% on the team unless the Reds determine otherwise. Doolittle and Brach were released before the finish of the season and went to other organizations. The Reds sent them away while they were still paying them. The chances of either one coming back are effectively nil. That you're trying to draw some sort of equivalence is bizarre.

    And the notion the Reds could screw up filling out their pen is deep into no duh territory.
    Last edited by M2; 10-18-2021 at 08:34 PM.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This is race to the bottom thinking and is exactly why this organization is terrible.

    The bullpen is a relatively inexpensive way to take this team from afterthought to serious contender. But they’ve spent 8 years crapping that particular bed. No need for that. Do better.
    They aren't getting 8 new guys. They need a closer and a late inning lefty. Some of these guys are OK in lesser roles. The problem with the pen was the peter principle created by taking away the late inning guys and bumping lesser arms up the food chain. Sims, Cessa, Santillan, Warren are a decent middle of the pen. Hoffman, Wilson and some kids are fine longer guys. I'm a Sims skeptic, but I'm not in favor of burning it to the ground. Garrett, Doolittle Bedrosian, and a lot of the scrap heap guys like Deleon, Fulmer etc were the bulk of the problem. They put too much on Antone and Garrett. One got hurt and the other got exposed and there was no foundation to build on.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Until they replace them with better talent, yeah. Give this organization an inch, they’ll embarrass you for 26 years.

    Sims and Cessa haven’t re-signed so they’re technically not on the team either.
    Just admit the dog ate your homework and take the F.

    Study harder, then criticize

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    Re: Projected Arbitration Salaries

    The key to a good 2022 bullpen is to move guys like Sims and Wilson further down the pecking order. If Sims is getting flagged as a potential closer, you know this bullpen is in trouble.

    Go and get two late-inning upgrades to add along to the set-up corps (Cessa/Santillan/Wilson/Sims, Warren) and I'd be fine leaving a roster spot open for one of the AAAA guys with options.

    They need to add at least one premium lefty and righty each. Doesn't have to be super-premium, just a Givens-level addition would do.

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