MLB Lockout Off-Season 2021

[Ron Madden]

214M was their last proposal. They didn't discuss the luxury tax in the meeting Thursday.

There was no movement on the sides’ different stands on luxury tax levels, minimum salaries or on the union’s desire to decrease revenue sharing, which would leave large-market teams with more money to spend. The luxury tax threshold was $210 million in 2021, and MLB has proposed raising the threshold to $214 million. Players have asked to lift the threshold to $245 million and MLB wants to expand the postseason from 10 teams to 14, and the union is offering 12.

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/...#storylink=cpy

[WrongVerb]

Some more ideas...

A floor, calculated for each team based on how many losses a team had the previous season.
If a team is under that, then they can pay to catch up, and that money goes to offset any luxury tax paid by teams over the cap.
A cap, calculated from total league revenues.
A draft lottery, need on the number of wins a non-playoff team had the previous year. More wins equals better chance at a high pick.
A salary minimum based on service time, and kicking in exactly when a player rolls over to his next service year.
Restricted free agency after 4 years in the majors, or after a player's age 26 season and at least three full years service time.

[RED VAN HOT]

The small market teams will always be outbid for the top tier FA's by the big market teams. Small market teams can't write off a bad signing easily. Pitchers are particularly risky. How a small market team deals with a minimum payroll is yet to be seen. They might compete with each other for the second tier FA's, or, they might choose to give a one year player (India, e.g.) an extended contract while they have the leverage. Moose was a second tier FA. Did that signing work well? Suarez was an early extension. Did that work well? Injuries happen; skills diminish. It's a risk. The risk will always be greater for the small market teams.

The players' seem to want the small market teams to pay more without a constraining luxury tax on the big spenders. That tends to squeeze small market teams. The intent seems to be to make a market for the lesser FA's. I'm not sure a salary floor will do that. It may simply raise the price of what some call tanking. Baseball, like every other business has a turnover. The young replace the old. Tanking is a strategy by which small market teams create a window of contention at the price of being bad for several years.

I think there will be a payroll floor. I hope it is not onerous for the Reds and other small market teams. i enjoy good baseball, but having the Reds win is even better. Playing well and losing sucks. Small market teams must always be smarter and managed better. They can't simply buy their way into winning. Being smarter means investing more heavily in player selection and development. I thought Dick Williams was on the right track. Now, I'm not sure.

[Sea Ray]

214M was their last proposal. They didn't discuss the luxury tax in the meeting Thursday.

There was no movement on the sides’ different stands on luxury tax levels, minimum salaries or on the union’s desire to decrease revenue sharing, which would leave large-market teams with more money to spend. The luxury tax threshold was $210 million in 2021, and MLB has proposed raising the threshold to $214 million. Players have asked to lift the threshold to $245 million and MLB wants to expand the postseason from 10 teams to 14, and the union is offering 12.

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/...#storylink=cpy

There are all sorts of proposals. My guess is that the players made it clear they were not interested in the 100/180 floor/ceiling proposal so MLB offered to raise the threshold slightly. In that article you linked I saw all sorts of concessions to the players

1) Adding the DH
2) Raising the tax threshold
3) Eliminate draft pick compensation for losing FAs
4) Draft lottery

The only concession mentioned by the players was to add 2 teams to the post season. Nothing else offered by the players would help the owners over what we have now

That said, I do think it was a BS offer by the owners and it was in no way thought to convince the players to settle

One final thought, eliminating FA compensation is a bad thing for markets like ours. All Reds fans should be vehemently against that proposal

[Sea Ray]

Some more ideas...

A floor, calculated for each team based on how many losses a team had the previous season.
If a team is under that, then they can pay to catch up, and that money goes to offset any luxury tax paid by teams over the cap.
A cap, calculated from total league revenues.
A draft lottery, need on the number of wins a non-playoff team had the previous year. More wins equals better chance at a high pick.
A salary minimum based on service time, and kicking in exactly when a player rolls over to his next service year.
Restricted free agency after 4 years in the majors, or after a player's age 26 season and at least three full years service time.

Such a plan would hurt the Reds tremendously. For example it'd mean losing Jonathan India after 2 more yrs rather than 5. It'd mean Jesse Winker gone immediately. It's hard enough being a Reds fan now. That'd really suck.

[Bob Sheed]

No Cap. No floor. Change to relegated leagues. Crying poor? Get out the way of the team owners that are not.

Won't ever happen. But anything else is just window dressing unless they want to go the way of the NFL.

[Tony Cloninger]

This is what I wish would happen.

Enough with the age as a factor for when you get FA. 5 full years. Change arbitration to 3 full years. No super 2 or whatever other stuff. You can increase the minimum salary another 500k.
It would force these teams to decide who to sign to earlier long term contracts to buy out any Arb or at least the first couple of years if FA. Expand rosters to 28. No more than 14 pitchers.

These guys per diem on food alone per day is more than a lot of people make during an 8 hour work shift. Up that as well if needed.

With an extra 2 roster spots The floor should be 125 and the top should be 225. If you are under the floor by the beginning of the year your 2nd round pick is forfeit. And you get no comp picks for losing any FA.
Draft pick comp should not be eliminated but the draft order for teams under 500 is the same as the NBA draft lottery.

This should get more players paid. Even the average to bad ones. The good to great players are going to get paid big. The Union wants everyone paid more. Thats fine. You can never expect the players to ever give anything up or back they’ve already gained. But their pension plan is unreal. Aren’t all players covered for life with medical even if they only make the majors for 1 day?

Expanding the playoffs to me would mean the WC games are best out of 3 and the Division Series best out of 7.

If it has to be 2 extra teams then it’s one and done between 4 WC teams instead of 2 then best out of 3 for the remaining 2 teams.
All at the home park of the team with the best record. All played weather permitting in 4 consecutive days. Then the division series starts the next day after. Sounds hard on those teams sure. Then win your division.

And that pick the team you want to play stuff for the team with the best record sounds like some non baseball fan just throwing some crap out because it sounds cool. Best record. Worst record. That’s the point of making teams compete.

[MoneyInTheBank]

No Cap. No floor. Change to relegated leagues. Crying poor? Get out the way of the team owners that are not.

Won't ever happen. But anything else is just window dressing unless they want to go the way of the NFL.

I think you could do a version of this without relegation. If you are bottom 10 in the league 2 years in a row, your revenue sharing is cut by 50%. 3 years? 75%. 4 years? 100%.

This also won't ever happen but could serve largely the same purpose

[mth123]

I'll take a shot at changes.

1. Minimum Salary adjusts with Service time.
Over 5 years - $3 Million
3 to 5 Years - $2.25 Million
2 to 3 years - $1.75 Million
Under two years and on active roster or big league IL $1.25 Million
On 40 man but not on big league active roster or IL $250K
Not on 40 man (service time irrelevent)
AAA - $125K
AA - $100K
A+ - $75K
A- - $60K
Below A Ball - $45K.

2, Luxury Tax Threshold $200 Million (Penalty for going over increased by 25% from current penalty structure). Additional 25% of penalty is payable to the players Association.

3, Minimum Payroll $125 Million Penalty for being under at given milestones during the year (Opening Day, Memorial Day, All Star Break, Labor Day, Full Season number).
1. Loss of Draft Pick (I'd say 1st rounder)
2. 125% of the Difference paid to the Players Association. Penalty doubles for each time under in a given 5 year period (twice 250%, 3 times 500%, 4 Times 1000%, 5 times 2000%)

4. In addition to active roster, establish a game day roster. Active roster includes 30 players. Game day roster is only 25. Players on IL are on 40 man but not active 30 man.

5. No expanded rosters in September.

6 Reduce days required on Active roster to count as a year of service by 25 days.

7. Revenue sharing increased. In addition to current system, the players union gets a share equal to the share of the lowest recipient. The additional would be prorated based on the payment from the contributing teams.

[Kc61]

I'll take a shot at changes.

1. Minimum Salary adjusts with Service time.
Over 5 years - $3 Million
3 to 5 Years - $2.25 Million
2 to 3 years - $1.75 Million
Under two years and on active roster or big league IL $1.25 Million
On 40 man but not on big league active roster or IL $250K
Not on 40 man (service time irrelevent)
AAA - $125K
AA - $100K
A+ - $75K
A- - $60K
Below A Ball - $45K.

2, Luxury Tax Threshold $200 Million (Penalty for going over increased by 25% from current penalty structure). Additional 25% of penalty is payable to the players Association.

3, Minimum Payroll $125 Million Penalty for being under at given milestones during the year (Opening Day, Memorial Day, All Star Break, Labor Day, Full Season number).
1. Loss of Draft Pick (I'd say 1st rounder)
2. 125% of the Difference paid to the Players Association. Penalty doubles for each time under in a given 5 year period (twice 250%, 3 times 500%, 4 Times 1000%, 5 times 2000%)

4. In addition to active roster, establish a game day roster. Active roster includes 30 players. Game day roster is only 25. Players on IL are on 40 man but not active 30 man.

5. No expanded rosters in September.

6 Reduce days required on Active roster to count as a year of service by 25 days.

7. Revenue sharing increased. In addition to current system, the players union gets a share equal to the share of the lowest recipient. The additional would be prorated based on teh payment from the contributing teams.

NBA minimum salaries range from $925,000 (0 years experience) to $2.6 million (10 or more years experience) with gradual increases in between.

For players with 3 or more years experience on one year contracts, NBA reimburses teams for amounts above $1.67 million. That is to encourage the signing of veterans rather than cheaper minimum players.

Not sure why MLB players should get more. NBA has a more structured - though lucrative - salary system with caps, limits (often by experience), cap exceptions. Not sure why that isn’t a better system than is demanded by the players in MLB.

[mth123]

NBA minimum salaries range from $925,000 (0 years experience) to $2.6 million (10 or more years experience) with gradual increases in between.

For players with 3 or more years experience on one year contracts, NBA reimburses teams for amounts above $1.67 million. That is to encourage the signing of veterans rather than cheaper minimum players.

Not sure why MLB players should get more. NBA has a more structured - though lucrative - salary system with caps, limits (often by experience), cap exceptions. Not sure why that isn’t a better system than is demanded by the players in MLB.

Mostly because players going to arbitration in these service windows usually get more than what I've shown even if they suck. Guys could still go to arb and team's could still non-tender.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think there has to be expanded rosters in September due to wear and tear of season but limit to only 4.

Also I wish Tampa would move to Montreal if they could secure a done stadium there. A’s to Vegas.

Pay the players in the AS game and added bonus if they win or more then what they are already paid? Are the paid by MLB to play in it or just a bonus paid if they make it in their contract?

[MikeS21]

The whole idea of “tanking” is a relative term. How (and who) determines whether or not a team is trying to win? Where’s the break point? Does MLB make that determination, or is it the players union?

Take a FA player like Scherzer who just signed 3 years $130 million. What contract offer to him makes a team “trying” versus “tanking”? Do they have to actually sign him in order to not be considered “tanking”? Or do they just need to make a competitive offer? For that matter, what is a “competitive” offer?

Nor am I a fan of relegation. Small market teams should not be punished because they can’t compete against large market teams who can buy championships. I remember the days when teams like the Reds and the Pirates had dynasties that were capable of winning year after year. Now, only large market teams can afford dynasties. The whole industry, both owners and players, needs to level the playing field rather than make it more lopsided.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The whole idea of “tanking” is a relative term. How (and who) determines whether or not a team is trying to win? Where’s the break point? Does MLB make that determination, or is it the players union?

There are several ways owners could circumvent the spirit of the proposed rules and tank anyway. For example, in your example, if a team didn't meet the salary floor, ownership would give that money to the players already on the roster as a bonus. (That's the way it's worked in the NBA, at any rate.) But the point of the rule isn't to completely irradicate tanking-- it's to make it financially hurtful to tank so that owners feel it if they do.

Owners don't spend on their teams but take in money from other teams in revenue sharing? Take away that money given if they choose not to share in the cost or upkeep of a professional team.

Owners decide to tank to get a better draft pick? Make draft order more random to reward teams with more victories.

Owners don't want to spend on players and want to cheap out? Perhaps it's time to send those owners to the showers and bring in new blood.

[RedTeamGo!]

The whole idea of “tanking” is a relative term. How (and who) determines whether or not a team is trying to win? Where’s the break point? Does MLB make that determination, or is it the players union?

Take a FA player like Scherzer who just signed 3 years $130 million. What contract offer to him makes a team “trying” versus “tanking”? Do they have to actually sign him in order to not be considered “tanking”? Or do they just need to make a competitive offer? For that matter, what is a “competitive” offer?

Nor am I a fan of relegation. Small market teams should not be punished because they can’t compete against large market teams who can buy championships. I remember the days when teams like the Reds and the Pirates had dynasties that were capable of winning year after year. Now, only large market teams can afford dynasties. The whole industry, both owners and players, needs to level the playing field rather than make it more lopsided.

Just one look at the operations of the Pirates the past 5 years is a pretty solid definition of not trying