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Thread: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

  1. #16
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    Of the 3 the only one I would flip is Gray. He is a FA after this season, the Reds are not winning this year with him and he isn't going to resign. If you can flip him to Seattle for an Emerson Hancock, I am all over it.

    The one guy I would not move unless the return is absolutely overwhelming is Castillo. When you look at pure stuff, Castillo is a top 5 pitcher in baseball. He seems to show it in flashes, but for reasons I don't understand it does not appear to be consistent. If you keep him and suddenly everything clicks I think his value could go up significantly. On the other hand if he is the same pitcher next year as he was this year I don't see his value being that much different than it is right now.
    Gray would be the guy I'd flip too, but the Reds hold an option for 2023 at $12 Million. Unless he gets hurt, that's an obvious bargain. The fact that its an option and you could get out of it if he does end up with a major injury makes it that much more valuable. He should only be flipped with compensation that accounts for that. He's basically an above average starter on a 2 year, $22 Million deal with an escape clause at the end of year 1. He better bring back something pretty tastey and not "he's a rental" type offers.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  4. #17
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Not understanding the apparent fascination with Brandon Marsh. 91 K's in 260 PA's last year, with 2 HRs. I'd hope he wouldn't be the centerpiece of any deal for one of our three frontline starters.
    He wouldn't be, but that's the kind of CF you'll get. They aren't getting a top guy. The centerpiece coming back better be high end young pitching becasue they are taking a wrecking ball to the current pitching depth if they make these moves. It's already started.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  5. #18
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    He wouldn't be, but that's the kind of CF you'll get. They aren't getting a top guy. The centerpiece coming back better be high end young pitching becasue they are taking a wrecking ball to the current pitching depth if they make these moves. It's already started.
    I just remarked on him because he's been mentioned several times as part of a package from the Angels.

  6. #19
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I just remarked on him because he's been mentioned several times as part of a package from the Angels.
    Its because he's a ready now CF on a team that needs pitching and they have other options to play CF which makes him obtainable. We can dream on higher end guys, but they aren't going to be dealt. If they trade these three pitchers, the CF could be anybody because we'll be watching the return of the 62 Mets here. Lets just stick a picture of Marvelous Marv Throneberry out there. That should be cheap.
    Last edited by mth123; 12-02-2021 at 04:48 PM.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Its because he's a ready now CF on a team that needs pitching and they have other options to play CF which makes him obtainable. We can dream on higher end guys, but they aren't going to be dealt. If they trade these three pitchers, the CF could be anybody because we'll be watching the return of the 62 Mets here. Lets just stick a picture of Marvelous Marv Throneberry out there. That should be cheap.
    Then you don't trade them, which is what I'd do unless a king's ransom is forthcoming. Put aside all the nonsense Miley angst, acquire a 4th starter to serve as a bridge to Greene, find a platoon complement for Naquin, teach Famer to fill in in left field, and add a bullpen arm. Competitive team. Almost all the FA signings were either spectacularly beyond any but the richest teams' reach--e.g. Scherzer, Seager--or overypays in terms of money or length of contract or both. At least they would be overpays for the Reds or vis-a-vis what similar production could be gotten for--Canha, Garcia etc.

  9. #21
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Then you don't trade them, which is what I'd do unless a king's ransom is forthcoming. Put aside all the nonsense Miley angst, acquire a 4th starter to serve as a bridge to Greene, find a platoon complement for Naquin, teach Famer to fill in in left field, and add a bullpen arm. Competitive team. Almost all the FA signings were either spectacularly beyond any but the richest teams' reach--e.g. Scherzer, Seager--or overypays in terms of money or length of contract or both. At least they would be overpays for the Reds or vis-a-vis what similar production could be gotten for--Canha, Garcia etc.
    I wouldn't be trading them at all and I'd be trying to win as well, but that's not what will happen. They are going to trade them for what they can get and fill the rotation with Vlad, SanMartin, Greene, Lodolo and Hoffman or some minor league FA type. Its going to be a long term disaster that places Greene and Lodolo in a precarious predicament and impacts their chances of ever being what they might be. I hope I'm wrong, but they can't sign a decent 4th starter for anything under $15 Million per year IMO. Who, that is worth anything, would ever sign here without it being a drastic overpay? The Reds will be left with only the guys no one else wants and may still need to overpay to get them.

    Canha is going to be paid $13 Million in 2022 and $11.5 Million in 2023 with a $2 Million buyout of 2024. The kind of guys you think they can get are way out of their price range. If the Reds sign a FA CF you are looking at Billy Hamilton or some one along those lines. My guess is you will get Votto, India, Winker and Stephenson being your team strength with Farmer at SS, Barrero in CF, Senzel/Naquin in RF, Suarez at 3B. The bullpen will be made of what they have. Keeping Amir Garrett tells me that. Hoffman, Moreta, Warren, Sims, Santillan, Cessa, Garrett and Wilson is the likely pen.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    REDREAD (12-04-2021)

  11. #22
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    I’m so fed up with the ownership that I’m starting to not care what they do


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

    I miss Raisor

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    REDREAD (12-04-2021),TeamSelig (12-03-2021),wlf WV (12-02-2021)

  13. #23
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Keep all three. Add pitching, do not subtract. Only 7 other MLB teams scored more runs per game in 2021 than the Reds' offense, but they failed to go to post-season because a whopping 19 teams had a better ERA.
    I would rather see the Reds find a way to acquire MLB's 21st best pitcher than acquire MLB's 21st best center fielder. Even without Cast, they have at least a competitive offense for 2022. I'm repeating myself, but I'd start three corner outfielders if I had to -- if they can hit.

  14. #24
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I wouldn't be trading them at all and I'd be trying to win as well, but that's not what will happen. They are going to trade them for what they can get and fill the rotation with Vlad, SanMartin, Greene, Lodolo and Hoffman or some minor league FA type. Its going to be a long term disaster that places Greene and Lodolo in a precarious predicament and impacts their chances of ever being what they might be. I hope I'm wrong, but they can't sign a decent 4th starter for anything under $15 Million per year IMO. Who, that is worth anything, would ever sign here without it being a drastic overpay? The Reds will be left with only the guys no one else wants and may still need to overpay to get them.

    Canha is going to be paid $13 Million in 2022 and $11.5 Million in 2023 with a $2 Million buyout of 2024. The kind of guys you think they can get are way out of their price range. If the Reds sign a FA CF you are looking at Billy Hamilton or some one along those lines. My guess is you will get Votto, India, Winker and Stephenson being your team strength with Farmer at SS, Barrero in CF, Senzel/Naquin in RF, Suarez at 3B. The bullpen will be made of what they have. Keeping Amir Garrett tells me that. Hoffman, Moreta, Warren, Sims, Santillan, Cessa, Garrett and Wilson is the likely pen.
    Wasn't my point about Canha. I like him but not at the rate he got paid, ditto for Garcia. And I don't think taking on Cast for 8 years is a good idea either. Plus I don't think there's any real evidence for the sky is falling narrative about the pitching staff. I wouldn't trade any of them just to unload salary; I'd trade any of them to improve the team.

  15. #25
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Using a hypothetical Angels trade, does this make the Reds better this year?

    Castillo to LAA for

    A high upside OF (Marsh or Adell)
    A middle to bottom of the rotation starter (Suarez or Barria)
    A "set up" quality reliever (Mayers)
    $7ish Million to spend

  16. #26
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Using a hypothetical Angels trade, does this make the Reds better this year?

    Castillo to LAA for

    A high upside OF (Marsh or Adell)
    A middle to bottom of the rotation starter (Suarez or Barria)
    A "set up" quality reliever (Mayers)
    $7ish Million to spend
    Not for me. I don't understand why Adell is a center piece for Castillo. That would be like trading Senzel for Berrios. A high upside outfield prospect who hasn't produced yet in the majors.
    I'm not on board with trading Castillo unless we're getting a young high upside player and pitcher who has already shown some ability to produce at the major league level.

  17. #27
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    Not for me. I don't understand why Adell is a center piece for Castillo. That would be like trading Senzel for Berrios. A high upside outfield prospect who hasn't produced yet in the majors.
    I'm not on board with trading Castillo unless we're getting a young high upside player and pitcher who has already shown some ability to produce at the major league level.
    Let me start by saying I'm not predicting Adell to be a star. We've seen it too many times with prospects to know one way or another. However, I need to push back against comparing him to Senzel. He has less than a half season worth of ABs at the MLB level and those occurred during his ages 21 and 22 seasons. Senzel didn't even make his debut until his age 24 season and will be 27 during next season. It would be more like trading Senzel during his rookie year. You would have gotten a HAUL

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  19. #28
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Let me start by saying I'm not predicting Adell to be a star. We've seen it too many times with prospects to know one way or another. However, I need to push back against comparing him to Senzel. He has less than a half season worth of ABs at the MLB level and those occurred during his ages 21 and 22 seasons. Senzel didn't even make his debut until his age 24 season and will be 27 during next season. It would be more like trading Senzel during his rookie year. You would have gotten a HAUL
    Ok point taken. Would Barrero be a better comparison?

    Adell has 250 abs with a .593 OPS and strikes out 34%. Not interested in him in the least for Castillo.

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  21. #29
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    If the Angels want Castillo, Detmers and one of Marsh or Adell needs to be the return. If they only want to give one of those three plus some filler, they can have Gray instead.

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  23. #30
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    Re: Who Do You Want to See Acquire Castillo, Gray, and/or Mahle? (And Why?)

    I've heard reports are that Mr. Castellini is very interested in a young prospect name Bag O'Cash. Wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are traded for him.

    He makes me feel like I'm 21 again Castellini shouted, startling the secretary outside his office

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