Lockout time waster - Best Reds seasons with the bat

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'll take Soto but you can't go wrong with any of them. Soto could be flat out dominant. If he had came along just a few years earlier he would won 20+ games a season.

Give me Rijo.

Not only was he dominant, he was even better in big moments.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Worst in-season stretch of hitting for a Reds player in the Division era (50 games /150 PA's to qualify)

Name	      Games	Span Start	Span End	PA	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
Bobby Tolan	50	5/7/1973	7/1/1973	203	14	29	4	1	3	13	.153	.190	.233	.423
Dave Concepcion	50	5/19/1972	7/15/1972	182	14	22	6	1	0	6	.142	.230	.194	.424
Drew Stubbs	50	8/2/2012	10/2/2012	189	18	30	1	1	1	5	.171	.225	.206	.430
Paul Bako	50	5/22/2008	8/27/2008	170	14	24	3	0	2	18	.156	.216	.214	.430
Dave Concepcion	50	5/12/1971	7/3/1971	157	7	26	2	0	1	8	.181	.217	.215	.432
Tommy Helms	50	4/6/1970	6/5/1970	211	18	38	6	0	0	13	.193	.217	.223	.441
Darrel Chaney	50	7/31/1973	9/28/1973	152	12	23	3	0	0	10	.174	.252	.197	.449

Bobby Tolan's 1973 struggles had to be the most surprising.

Pre 1973, he was about 15% above league average with his bat, and a relatively solid CF with a great arm. As a RF, he was a Gold Glove candidate who could cover ground in the Astroturf of Riverfront. He was just entering his prime-- age 27-- and had come back fully from the Achillies injury that had him out all of 1971 with a resurgent 1972 season. No one could have predicted he crater like that.

But crater he did.

Tolan's season wasn't enough to destroy the season, but his subsequent suspension absolutely was. Forced to play without him, the Reds turned to Ken Griffey and newly acquired Cesar Geronimo. Neither was ready for the 1973 playoffs. Geronimo OPSed .133 that series, Griffey .537. Tolan may well have been the difference between a win and a rematch with Oakland and a largely forgotten season in Big Red Machine history.

[foster15]

Bobby Tolan's 1973 struggles had to be the most surprising.

Pre 1973, he was about 15% above league average with his bat, and a relatively solid CF with a great arm. As a RF, he was a Gold Glove candidate who could cover ground in the Astroturf of Riverfront. He was just entering his prime-- age 27-- and had come back fully from the Achillies injury that had him out all of 1971 with a resurgent 1972 season. No one could have predicted he crater like that.

But crater he did.

Tolan's season wasn't enough to destroy the season, but his subsequent suspension absolutely was. Forced to play without him, the Reds turned to Ken Griffey and newly acquired Cesar Geronimo. Neither was ready for the 1973 playoffs. Geronimo OPSed .133 that series, Griffey .537. Tolan may well have been the difference between a win and a rematch with Oakland and a largely forgotten season in Big Red Machine history.

Tolan solid CF with great arm? I sure missed that.

That aside, I remember that when Sparky was asked about any regrets and things he did that he would change if he could and he stated the way he handled the Bobby Tolan situation. I don't remember if I knew what that was all about and forgot, or just never knew. But he felt he did Tolan wrong. Anyone have any details on what went down between the two?

[texasdave]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the Reds only Cy Young winner and (by far) OPS+ leader (+284) on any list. I know why, but his numbers are so staggering that he should have been asterisked in somewhere. IMO, Trevor Bauer had the single best season as a starter in team history.

[Ron Madden]

I remember Tolan started growing a beard, Howsam and Sparky didn't like it and Sparky made him shave.

[westofyou]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the Reds only Cy Young winner and (by far) OPS+ leader (+284) on any list. I know why, but his numbers are so staggering that he should have been asterisked in somewhere. IMO, Trevor Bauer had the single best season as a starter in team history.

125 IP limit in my queries... 2020 is an anomaly when looking at data, I'm more apt to toss it than laud it.

[texasdave]

125 IP limit in my queries... 2020 is an anomaly when looking at data, I'm more apt to toss it than laud it.

I'm more apt to mention it, and put an asterisk by it. To ignore it completely makes no sense to me.

[cumberlandreds]

Bobby Tolan's 1973 struggles had to be the most surprising.

Pre 1973, he was about 15% above league average with his bat, and a relatively solid CF with a great arm. As a RF, he was a Gold Glove candidate who could cover ground in the Astroturf of Riverfront. He was just entering his prime-- age 27-- and had come back fully from the Achillies injury that had him out all of 1971 with a resurgent 1972 season. No one could have predicted he crater like that.

But crater he did.

Tolan's season wasn't enough to destroy the season, but his subsequent suspension absolutely was. Forced to play without him, the Reds turned to Ken Griffey and newly acquired Cesar Geronimo. Neither was ready for the 1973 playoffs. Geronimo OPSed .133 that series, Griffey .537. Tolan may well have been the difference between a win and a rematch with Oakland and a largely forgotten season in Big Red Machine history.

Tolan tore his achilles up playing basketball after the 1970 season. He missed the entire 1971 season but did comeback and have a very good 72 season. But that achilles just wasn't the same and he went downhill fast. I think he had a hard time with that. He eventually was suspended by the Reds and then traded. You are right in that if he had just had the season he did in 72 things may have turned out differently in 1973.

[Big Klu]

125 IP limit in my queries... 2020 is an anomaly when looking at data, I'm more apt to toss it than laud it.

Glorified exhibition season. I discount everything about the season, other than acknowledging counting stats that get added to career totals.

[HokieRed]

Concepcion didn't come into his own in hitting until the 1973 season. He broke his ankle just before the all star break and hence came Darrel Chaney's stretch on your sheet. Chaney could never hit a lick and continued to prove that once he got to Atlanta.

I've always considered that confidence in Concepcion, when that clearly wasn't shared by the fans or reinforced by the numbers, to be one of Sparky's best qualities. As I remember David from those days, I think he weighed about 140 pounds.

[foster15]

I've always considered that confidence in Concepcion, when that clearly wasn't shared by the fans or reinforced by the numbers, to be one of Sparky's best qualities. As I remember David from those days, I think he weighed about 140 pounds.

What confidence? Back then it was accepted that your shortstop was going to be a weak hitter. Anything above weak was gravy.

[mth123]

I'm more apt to mention it, and put an asterisk by it. To ignore it completely makes no sense to me.

The guy threw 73 innings. You could probably find similar 73 innings stretches that would look as good had the season stopped there. Maybe even in guys who ended up having ho hum seasons overall. I just don't see how you can compare a guy throwing 73 innings to somebody throwing 250 to 300.. Bucky Walters had an ERA+ of 170 for 319 innings in 1939. I'd guess he had a 73 inning stretch that was as dominant and he would have won the Cy Young had the award existed. Instead he won the MVP award.

Bauer was awesome in 2020 but 73 innings is a disqualifier IMO.

[Roy Tucker]

Interesting article about Tolan.

https://www.redlegnation.com/2017/04...f-bobby-tolan/

My little brother imitated his erect batting stance in youth baseball.

[foster15]

The guy threw 73 innings. You could probably find similar 73 innings stretches that would look as good had the season stopped there. Maybe even in guys who ended up having ho hum seasons overall. I just don't see how you can compare a guy throwing 73 innings to somebody throwing 250 to 300.. Bucky Walters had an ERA+ of 170 for 319 innings in 1939. I'd guess he had a 73 inning stretch that was as dominant and he would have won the Cy Young had the award existed. Instead he won the MVP award.

Bauer was awesome in 2020 but 73 innings is a disqualifier IMO.

I get what you're saying. That's why I think a separate category should instead of having a minimum inning qualifier, could have a percentage of team's innings pitched qualifier. So if a starting pitcher made every start in a 5 game rotation during 162 game schedule and averaged 6 innings, I believe that would equal somewhere between 12 and 13 percent of team's innings pitched. So taking into account missed starts, maybe 10 percent of team's innings pitched should be the threshold.

[goreds2]

Interesting article about Tolan.

https://www.redlegnation.com/2017/04...f-bobby-tolan/

My little brother imitated his erect batting stance in youth baseball.

Great article. Thanks for posting.