Will Votto be traded?

[Falls City Beer]

Lol oh come on, everyone is pessimistic about the Reds on here except like 2 posters.

Not really. It’s pretty much a hope springs eternal atmosphere. Generally. Admittedly, it’s gotten progressively more pessimistic as the number of years between postseason victories rises, but it’s not an overly pessimistic board.

[Bourgeois Zee]

About the Reds? I miss details, but I pick up the stench of incompetence well before anyone else here does.

It takes no insight to perpetually yell, "Fail!" into the wilderness.

You don't get credit if that's all you do.

And you especially don't get credit if you refuse to accept the times you were proven wrong.

[westofyou]

Not really. It’s pretty much a hope springs eternal atmosphere. Generally. Admittedly, it’s gotten progressively more pessimistic as the number of years between postseason victories rises, but it’s not an overly pessimistic board.

It's a board full of people who love baseball and occasionally some wear their hearts on their sleeves. But it's not as if everyone here outside of you just fell off the pumpkin wagon and discovered baseball or the pain of failed expectations.

[Falls City Beer]

It takes no insight to perpetually yell, "Fail!" into the wilderness.

You don't get credit if that's all you do.

And you especially don't get credit if you refuse to accept the times you were proven wrong.

I definitely don’t describe everything the Reds do as a failure. I was one of the few people here who was pretty unreservedly happy to have Jocketty as GM. I still believe he was the best GM the team’s had in the last 30 years or so. I routinely defended him against the “but he’s not Billy Beane” cohort around here. I loved the pre-2012/pre-2013 off-seasons. Then they retrenched and did a bang up job of trashing the place. I haven’t seen any sustained signs of a serious run since.

[InsaneinthBrame]

I definitely don’t describe everything the Reds do as a failure. I was one of the few people here who was pretty unreservedly happy to have Jocketty as GM. I still believe he was the best GM the team’s had in the last 30 years or so. I routinely defended him against the “but he’s not Billy Beane” cohort around here. I loved the pre-2012/pre-2013 off-seasons. Then they retrenched and did a bang up job of trashing the place. I haven’t seen any sustained signs of a serious run since.

The Reds are in great position right now. They are set up to be like the Rays/Indians/Brewers/A's but with higher payroll. They just have to make the right moves.
The Reds payroll really opens up in 2024 this leads to extending young core players to LTC they need to select right ones (Castillo/Mahle/India/Stephenson?)
Others they need to trade like the Rays (Price, Archer, Snell)
The Reds are seeing results from the minors and I can see that continuing.

[REDREAD]

That was an investment. On balance a good one, but this perceived emotionalism on the part of Castellini is almost certainly a media creation. His first order of business is ballooning the organization’s worth. He couldn’t care less about winning or losing. If he could continue to increase the franchise’s value while losing 100 games a year he’d do it in a heartbeat.

That's actually a great point. The example most cited for Cast's meddling/emotional attachment was that he didn't want to trade Billy Hamilton.
Well, we can talk about the sabermatic value of Billy, and it's not that flattering.. but man, Billy was a guy that actually sold tickets.
I saw a game live where the Reds beat the Cardinals, and Billy scored the willing run on a sac fly which was actually a pop up between 2b and RF.
That was probably the best game I have seen in my life live. I saw some AAA games when Billy was down there, just to see him, and I had stopped
going to minor league games.
Point is. Was Billy one of Cast's "favorites" or was he a guy that sold tickets? An argument can be made either way, but I agree with you FCB, Billy
was seen as a ticket seller.
Note: I am not saying everyone would buy tickets to see Billy. But I think his "attendance draw above replacement level" was pretty high. Both he and Chapman.

[RedsBaron]

That's actually a great point. The example most cited for Cast's meddling/emotional attachment was that he didn't want to trade Billy Hamilton.
Well, we can talk about the sabermatic value of Billy, and it's not that flattering.. but man, Billy was a guy that actually sold tickets.
I saw a game live where the Reds beat the Cardinals, and Billy scored the willing run on a sac fly which was actually a pop up between 2b and RF.
That was probably the best game I have seen in my life live. I saw some AAA games when Billy was down there, just to see him, and I had stopped
going to minor league games.
Point is. Was Billy one of Cast's "favorites" or was he a guy that sold tickets? An argument can be made either way, but I agree with you FCB, Billy
was seen as a ticket seller.
Note: I am not saying everyone would buy tickets to see Billy. But I think his "attendance draw above replacement level" was pretty high. Both he and Chapman.

I remember the game against the Cardinals. It was amazing to see Hamilton score on that pop up.
Unfortunately Hamilton never was able to get on base often enough, and for that matter a relief pitcher such as Aroldis Chapman only has a limited value. Having Chapman as the closer instead of his predecessor Francisco Cordero probably only gained the Reds 2 or 3 wins a season. While not insignificant, it wasn't enough to get the Reds a championship. However, Hamilton and Chapman had huge entertainment value. I had never before seen a Reds baserunner do some of the things Hamilton could do, and I had never before seen any Reds pitcher throw 103 mph fastballs as Chapman did. They were fun to watch.

[MoneyInTheBank]

That's actually a great point. The example most cited for Cast's meddling/emotional attachment was that he didn't want to trade Billy Hamilton.
Well, we can talk about the sabermatic value of Billy, and it's not that flattering.. but man, Billy was a guy that actually sold tickets.
I saw a game live where the Reds beat the Cardinals, and Billy scored the willing run on a sac fly which was actually a pop up between 2b and RF.
That was probably the best game I have seen in my life live. I saw some AAA games when Billy was down there, just to see him, and I had stopped
going to minor league games.
Point is. Was Billy one of Cast's "favorites" or was he a guy that sold tickets? An argument can be made either way, but I agree with you FCB, Billy
was seen as a ticket seller.
Note: I am not saying everyone would buy tickets to see Billy. But I think his "attendance draw above replacement level" was pretty high. Both he and Chapman.

I don't really disagree with what you've said here but I think we've drifted away from "will Votto be traded?" and into "is Castellini emotional?" In the context of "will Votto be traded?" I would say these points would lead to "no" as he is a guy who sells tickets

[Falls City Beer]

The Reds are in great position right now. They are set up to be like the Rays/Indians/Brewers/A's but with higher payroll. They just have to make the right moves.
The Reds payroll really opens up in 2024 this leads to extending young core players to LTC they need to select right ones (Castillo/Mahle/India/Stephenson?)
Others they need to trade like the Rays (Price, Archer, Snell)
The Reds are seeing results from the minors and I can see that continuing.

How many times have I heard this story?

[westofyou]

https://joeposnanski.substack.com/p/unanimous

I thought it would be fun to go down the list to see what seasons had unanimous MVP awards (and, as a bonus, throw in a few seasons where the player ALMOST was unanimous).

And you know what? It is fun. Here you go — all the unanimous MVP seasons:

ALMOST: Joey Votto in 2010

Votto fell one vote shy — that vote going to Albert Pujols who basically had an identical season to Joey. This is a good opportunity to share with you a text exchange I had with Votto a couple of days ago

[Tony Cloninger]

I’m not wrong though. And that sort of goes to the heart of it.

I forgive you and welcome you back when the Reds go on their next Championship runs.

[RedsBaron]

https://joeposnanski.substack.com/p/unanimous

I'd love for Joey to be top 50 when he is done. The book is a great read by the way.
Edit: After I typed my post above I clicked on the link westofyou provided. I found another great article by Posnanski about ten players he thinks should be in the HOF plus Pete Rose; well worth a read.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'd love for Joey to be top 50 when he is done.

He'd have to be perhaps the greatest old hitter of all time to get there, IMO.

[Jaysland Red]

No. Votto will be talked about forever, after he is done playing, in the same breath as all the greats and we are so lucky that he’s “our” great. Everyone knows he’ll retire to the Canadian wilderness, where he’ll build his own Field Of Dreams and wait for Ty Cobb, Ted Williams etc to come out of the woods so he can show them who’s the best hitter of all time.

[RedsManRick]

Just because it's fun to think about, Votto is currently tied for 143rd with Reggie Smith at 64.6 rWAR. To reach 50th, he'd need to get to 86.1 to tie Robin Roberts. That's 21.5 WAR.

The following position players have produced 21.5 or more WAR in and after their age 38 season (using fWAR, because this is just for fun and easier to look up this way): Cap Anson (21.7), Honus Wanger (23.6), Barry Bonds (29.1). 7 Pitchers also accomplished it: Gaylord Perry, Jack Quinn, Roger Clements, Randy Johnson. Cy Young, Phil Niekro, Nolan Ryan.

To get in the top 100, he just needs to get to 70.5, 5.5 more WAR. That would tie him with 3 other players at 98th. Among those 3? Barry Larkin. A full year at last year's second half rates would do it.