Covid-19 Part XVII

[BernieCarbo]

Gee, I guess NBC was fooled too:

Immunity acquired from a Covid infection is as protective as vaccination against severe illness and death, study finds

But, not if Covid kills you, right? It seems like natural immunity is a non-factor then.

Seems like a big chance to take if there's a shot available.

[Larry Schuler]

100% of unvaccinated people who survive COVID have a 100% survival rate though. That’s better than the rate of vaccinated who survive.

[Sea Ray]

But, not if Covid kills you, right? It seems like natural immunity is a non-factor then.

Seems like a big chance to take if there's a shot available.

That part I agree with. If (and that's a big if) you're susceptible to getting seriously ill from it, then absolutely get the shot. My upper 80s parents have benefitted from getting the shot. But healthy kids absolutely don't need it. Neither do I as someone who's not overweight, no asthma, on no meds etc etc. We're well past the point where shots are going to lessen the spread or lead to herd immunity. We're down to: the shot will keep you out of the hospital. Well, I'm not in danger of being hospitalized from this anyway

[BernieCarbo]

....We're down to: the shot will keep you out of the hospital. Well, I'm not in danger of being hospitalized from this anyway

That's not a good way to look at it at all. I know of four people who are dead who thought the same thing. One of them was 70, but had no health concerns at all, but his daughter told him not to get the shot. The other three were between 34 and 50, also with no health concerns. In all cases, it hit them like a freight train and they were dead within days, and it was well after the shot was available. Oh well.

[Sea Ray]

That's not a good way to look at it at all. I know of four people who are dead who thought the same thing. One of them was 70, but had no health concerns at all, but his daughter told him not to get the shot. The other three were between 34 and 50, also with no health concerns. In all cases, it hit them like a freight train and they were dead within days, and it was well after the shot was available. Oh well.

Let me forst say that I was first in line when I became eligible and I also got one booster. I don't regret doing that. I'm not planning to get any more. This current variant is not deadly. I also have some natural immunity. There were some examples of healthy people under 70 dying from it but it still was quite the rarity

[BernieCarbo]

Let me forst say that I was first in line when I became eligible and I also got one booster. I don't regret doing that. I'm not planning to get any more. This current variant is not deadly. I also have some natural immunity. There were some examples of healthy people under 70 dying from it but it still was quite the rarity

Well, it wasn't that rare. About 275,000 died, which is one out of 1200 people, and that rate kind of makes sense based on the three that died where I lived. It was far more lethal than polio, and people had no problem getting that vaccine. And, if the three people who died had gotten the vaccine, it's almost a surety that they would be alive today.

I mean, it's ok, it was their choice, and people have moved on. Just saying that natural immunity probably isn't a good strategy any more than being exposed to polio was.

[Sea Ray]

Well, it wasn't that rare. About 275,000 died, which is one out of 1200 people, and that rate kind of makes sense based on the three that died where I lived. It was far more lethal than polio, and people had no problem getting that vaccine. And, if the three people who died had gotten the vaccine, it's almost a surety that they would be alive today.

I mean, it's ok, it was their choice, and people have moved on. Just saying that natural immunity probably isn't a good strategy any more than being exposed to polio was.

I don't know what your 275K number refers to but I was talking about young healthy people. It was quite rare for them to be hospitalized for C19

Polio is not a good comparison. First of all, there were definitely safety issues in the first couple of yrs of that vax.

Modifications were introduced after the original vaccine was found to be unsafe when certain batches caused cases of polio in the "Cutter incident."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...accine/303946/

Furthermore I've never read an article that predicts that C19 will ever be eradicated like polio has

[BernieCarbo]

I don't know what your 275K number refers to but I was talking about young healthy people. It was quite rare for them to be hospitalized for C19

The 275k number is the number of people under 70 that died from covid. I don't know how many of them were healthy, because by American standards many of them were probably obese and smokers, but many were just regular stubborn people who wouldn't get vaccinated.

Polio is not a good comparison. First of all, there were definitely safety issues in the first couple of yrs of that vax.

My point is that aside from a few wacko new-age and Wholefoods shopper parents, nearly 100% of people got vaccinated against polio even though it is a much lesser threat. Not sure why the initial trails are pertinent. Maybe we should compare today's vaccine technology to 1780 when we sliced some guy's arm open and rubbed smallpox cells in it?

Furthermore I've never read an article that predicts that C19 will ever be eradicated like polio has

You can find articles that will claim just about anything. Even the government claimed the vaccine would prevent covid infections, and Biden himself said it, although I don't think he understands half of what he says himself. But the main point is that if you get the vaccine, you won't die, and that has been clear for almost two years now. Depending on natural immunity instead is dumb. Hell, even the black plague and smallpox didn't kill everybody, but I wouldn't use that as the standard.

[Sea Ray]

The 275k number is the number of people under 70 that died from covid. I don't know how many of them were healthy, because by American standards many of them were probably obese and smokers, but many were just regular stubborn people who wouldn't get vaccinated.


My point is that aside from a few wacko new-age and Wholefoods shopper parents, nearly 100% of people got vaccinated against polio even though it is a much lesser threat. Not sure why the initial trails are pertinent. Maybe we should compare today's vaccine technology to 1780 when we sliced some guy's arm open and rubbed smallpox cells in it?



You can find articles that will claim just about anything. Even the government claimed the vaccine would prevent covid infections, and Biden himself said it, although I don't think he understands half of what he says himself. But the main point is that if you get the vaccine, you won't die, and that has been clear for almost two years now. Depending on natural immunity instead is dumb. Hell, even the black plague and smallpox didn't kill everybody, but I wouldn't use that as the standard.

I'm not getting why you're so confident that getting the vaccine will keep you out of the hospital:

Almost half the people who were hospitalized with COVID-19 last spring had been fully vaccinated and received a third dose or booster shot, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.

Granted, their numbers show that the vaccine helped but given that nearly half were fully vaccinated, I don't have a lot of confidence that the vax will even meet that very modest standard

Unvaccinated adults were 3.4 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who were vaccinated, the CDC said.

https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/202...ose_or_booster

[bing]

Because of relative numbers. The 3.4 times less likely is the key number. The fact that almost half of the hospitalizations were vaccinated people is because a larger portion of the population is vaccinated.

[Sea Ray]

Because of relative numbers. The 3.4 times less likely is the key number. The fact that almost half of the hospitalizations were vaccinated people is because a larger portion of the population is vaccinated.

As I said, the vax helped but it's far from certain that it'll keep you out of the hospital. There are a lot of other factors to consider

[bing]

As I said, the vax helped but it's far from certain that it'll keep you out of the hospital. There are a lot of other factors to consider

No one here is arguing 100% keep you out of the hospital, maybe besides you? It's all probability plays. Being 3.4 times less likely to be hospitalized is a pretty solid upgrade in probability.

[Larry Schuler]

No one here is arguing 100% keep you out of the hospital, maybe besides you? It's all probability plays. Being 3.4 times less likely to be hospitalized is a pretty solid upgrade in probability.

Why can’t you just let a guy win

[Sea Ray]

Natural immunity is not getting the publicity it should. This study shows it to be 3x more effective than the vax alone:

The researchers found the hospitalization rate was:

0.06%, or 6 in 10,000 for vaccinated patients.
0.03%, or 3 in 10,000, in previously infected but unvaccinated people.
0.01%, or 1 in 10,000, among those who were both vaccinated and infected previously.

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/d...o-study-finds/

[bing]

Natural immunity is not getting the publicity it should. This study shows it to be 3x more effective than the vax alone:



https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/d...o-study-finds/

From the article:

While there were slight differences between the three groups, the researchers note the difference is not statistically significant.

"We found these results to be in line with previous studies, although the interpretation shouldn't necessarily be that natural immunity provides the same protection as vaccination,” says Dr. Pollock. “Rather, this study found that among our primary care population, both natural immunity and vaccine immunity appeared to lead to very low rates of breakthrough hospitalizations."