Who's panicking? Everyone (who is already in the US) is well within their rights to live their lives however they want at this point. Some people are never going back to how they used to live, and if that makes them feel more secure, and feeling more secure is that important to them, then good for them.Originally Posted by Sea Ray
westofyou (12-21-2022)
There is growing sentiment that "we take action" as Covid numbers grow. Here's one:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ks/ar-AA14YEPp
The media is now giving us all kinds of Covid numbers like they really know.
I agree with you that if folks want to mask up, that's their choice but I'm not sure we're done with gov't mandating things again, as illustrated in the op-ed I linked
Mandates come in all sorts of different forms. Here is an example of a mandate:
Duke University denies 14 year-old girl’s kidney surgery due to being unvaccinated against COVID-19
https://original.newsbreak.com/@the-...ainst-covid-19
This girl needs a life saving surgery and they're denying her that based on her being unvaccinated for C19. That is crazy nuts. Some folks are still "panicking" over this virus
It’s a kidney transplant, not just surgery.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
cumberlandreds (12-21-2022),RFS62 (12-29-2022),westofyou (12-21-2022)
Of course...and it's still a rough mandate to impose on this girl
What's the medical reason for not giving a kidney to a 14 year old who isn't vaccinated for Covid? There may be a good one, but at first blush it does seem crazy.
Hospitals are free to put conditions on patients who are slated to receive transplants. Organs for transplant are scarce, and doctors want to ensure the recipients are going to lead a good, long life. In this case, because transplant recipients have to live the rest of their lives taking immuno-suppressants, one of those conditions includes being vaccinated against common viruses that will be around for the rest of our lives and much longer. The SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes Covid is one such virus.
I mean, you wouldn't want them to transplant a new liver into someone who was an active alcoholic, would you?
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
I hear ya, but she's 14. Not exactly in the Covid danger zone.
BTW, I don't love the policy, but if you're told you have to get the vaccine or no new kidney, the risk/reward balance on the Covid vaccine shifts A LOT. It becomes absolutely nuts not to get the vaccine at that point given the relative benefits (hey, new kidney) versus the risks (slightly elevated risk of myocarditis and blood clots; even if you think a few people are dropping dead from the vax, compare it to risk of no new kidney).
Last edited by Boston Red; 12-21-2022 at 10:43 AM.
A 14 yr old girl is not at great danger of dying from C19. She just isn't. That is the panic I was referring to
She won't be 14 forever. And the virus is going to be with us forever. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
The point I'm trying to make is that the policy seems to be a bad one. As is the family's decision in light of said bad policy.
The vaccine doesn't last forever either, that's the point. Why deny a lifelong medical procedure for a vaccine that lasts 4 months?
I was going to say this. Just to get on the wait list for a kidney is a rigorous process and hospitals are very picky. The average wait time for a kidney is 3-5 years. It depends on the hospital as to what their criteria is. There are many reasons why you can be rejected. From the link:
Serious heart disease
Not being healthy enough to survive an operation
Active infection
Obesity (being overweight)
Smoking or substance abuse
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/transplant-waitlist
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
cumberlandreds (12-21-2022),WrongVerb (12-21-2022)
It's the same policy that's been around the transplant community for ages. They just expanded it to include the covid virus. Again, I'm not sure what your issue is here. I mean, did you read my explanation? I've known a couple people who are transplant recipients, and there are all kinds of protocols required before and after the transplant so that it is both successful in the immediate, and provides the patient with an extended life.
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8149202/Key points
•Children and adolescents with primary or secondary immune deficiencies have not generally had increased incidence or severity of COVID-19 infection as was initially feared.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.629240/fullA number of reports from adult centers have highlighted how these types of patients frequently develop a severe form of COVID-19: during the peak of the epidemic in New York, 36 adult kidney transplant recipients tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 in 15 days at a single center (104). Most of the patients (78%) were admitted, and 28% died after a median follow-up of 21 days. This dramatic picture fortunately did not apply to the pediatric patients with chronic kidney diseases.
Overall, 36 pediatric COVID-19 cases with chronic kidney disease have been reported so far, 28 of them under immunosuppressive therapy, including 15 kidney transplant recipients. All had mild illness, and none required oxygen administration (105–107).
Sea Ray (12-21-2022)
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