Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread: Protect Joe Burrow

[WVRed]

Do Bengals win AFCCG if Jessie Bates is not our starting safety?

Do the Bengals beat the Steelers both times in the playoffs if Carson Palmer or Andy Dalton don’t go down?

I don’t think the Bengals win against the Titans or the Chiefs but that’s no reason to reward him with a contract that isn’t close to what he’s worth. You’re risking cap space that will be needed later to lock down Burrow and others for someone who likely isn’t going to live up to the contract he’s going to get and become a cap casualty. Let someone else be on the hook for it. I’d rather let him walk and build toward future Super Bowls.

By this logic Malcom Butler should have been a Patriot for life for his INT in the end zone when they won the Super Bowl. That didn’t really work out for them did it?

[Kingspoint]

Do the Bengals beat the Steelers both times in the playoffs if Carson Palmer or Andy Dalton don’t go down?

I'd say, "Unequivocally, yes!".

That said, the refs were already swallowing their whistles on Defensive Pass Interference against the Squealers before Carson went down. While it looked like the Bengals would have won that game by at least 14 points, taking the refs out of the equation, they would have found a way to give the themselves a chance to steal it for the Squealers. Don't know how much better Dalton would have been than his replacement, but it was certain that the refs were not going to allow the Bengals to win no matter what in the 2nd game.

The Cheatin' Squealers are so rotten now, and will be for several years, that no amount of NFL/referee interference will get them out from the cellar for a while. They were stupid enough to draft a QB this year when they are going to have a Top-5 pick next season for a much, much better QB. It might be enough that they screwed themselves over and will have to die with Willis as they watch passed up QB's next season lead their prospective teams to the playoffs (in the NFC only....ain't no teams taking a QB next season in the 1st Rd that will penetrate the playoffs in the AFC over the next five seasons. Those spots are all taken by AFC teams that currently have legitimate franchise QB's, and the Jets ain't one of them, nor are the Titans, but Tannehill might just be good enough to get his team to the playoffs one more time because of Henry and their excellent HC, and their two weak division opponents of HOU and JAX that should hand them four wins).

Steelers will go 0-6 intra-division this season, while losing at least 12 games total, more than likely 14 games.

[Kingspoint]

Do Bengals win AFCCG if Jessie Bates is not our starting safety?

You can say that "if" about 25 guys in that game.

[Kingspoint]

We don't have to be as good Defensively next season because of our vastly improved (on an already very good) Offense, yet we will be much better, with or without Bates. Bates is here next year no matter what. Will he be here longer is the question.

[Kingspoint]

Can't see them sticking with the Week 11 SNF game of CIN (7-2) @ PIT (1-8). Who would tune in to watch the 1-8 Steelers lose by 30 points? That game gets moved to the afternoon and a much better game replaces it.

[WVRed]

Can't see them sticking with the Week 11 SNF game of CIN (7-2) @ PIT (1-8). Who would tune in to watch the 1-8 Steelers lose by 30 points? That game gets moved to the afternoon and a much better game replaces it.

I think the Steelers will be better than 1-8. That said if they do flex hopefully a home game takes it’s place (KC)

[Ohayou]

As much as I despise the Steelers, you can never count them out. They rank 5th in totals wins from 2012-present, and haven't had a losing season since 2003.

[Redsfaithful]

The Steelers are going to suck. Maybe the defense gets them to mediocre, but the offense is going to be pitiful.

[KoryMac5]

Long shot option for the Bengals at TE

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/scotty-...183435275.html

[RedEye]

Safeties are a dime a dozen. Not knocking Jessie because he is one of the best in the league but if Dax or Anderson end up being solid our defense won’t suffer much.

If he was a QB, LT, EDGE or MLB I could see justifying paying him top dollar. Safeties, interior linemen, tight ends and skill players are pretty much easy to replace unless you have a HOF caliber player on the roster.

Depends on what he's asking for, which we don't know. I still think they have the $ to sign him if they want to. And I don't think safeties are a "dime a dozen."

I bet it comes down to the guaranteed money. And I don't think they are wrong to let him walk if he insists -- I just also don't think the whole "we need to pay Burrow, Ja'Marr and Tee" argument holds much water either.

Bengals want to spend money the way they want to spend it. That means not much guaranteed. They like the control that gives them over their finances without having to get "creative" with the cap. This results in them not having to panic to make things work later. It has its pros and cons, but it is what it is.

[Kingspoint]

I would think that there has only been a handful of Safeties that have had PFF grades of 90+ (for a full season of snaps) over the last 5 years. Bates is one of them. It's why he stepped up huge during the playoffs. 3 INT's (I'm counting his intentional tip into the chest of Vonn Bell in OT as his 3rd) and 7 Pass breakups in the AFC playoffs alone. That's why the best of the best get the most money. That said, he'd be an idiot to sit out. If there's anything one should know about Mike Brown....he doesn't blink. He hasn't stepped into negotiations the last couple of years on things, but I think he would "strongly" advise those making the final decisions of the ramifications it creates down the road. Cannot let a player dictate terms.

Bengals have been more than fair, and have overpaid for many recently. But, the new regime has made intelligent decisions, and taking care of their own, hopefully, will add a more prudent approach than the moronic resignings of Maualuga and Peko. We can win without Bates. Bates needs to understand this. Thus, Bates should not get Top-5 Safety money. Top-10, yes. Top-5, no. Although, if he was to get the 5th most now, in two years, that could be 10th, and in four years, 15th-20th. That might be a fair contract. Bell could be signed for one-third that Bates is asking for. I'd rather take Bell, and keep the difference, offering the one-year tag for Bates, and then letting him walk. If Bates doesn't play, and the Bengals can pull the tag offer, too, if Bates wants to go that route, then our draftees get to start sooner than expected. There's just no reason to offer Bates more than $50M for four years ($20M gauranteed if he makes the roster each of the next two seasons). None, whatsoever.

Currently, according to Spotrac, these are the top-10 teams' monies allocated total to the Free Safety position for 2022: DEN: 1 player ($19M); SF: 2 players ($14M); NEP: 3 players ($11.2M); NOS: 3 players ($11.1M); PIT: 1 player ($10.6M); TEN: 2 players ($9.8M); CIN: 2 players ($8.5M) Since he hasn't signed the tag, that doesn't count Bates, so if Bates was given the tag amount, the Bengals would jump to #2 overall as far as position allocation.; MIN: 1 player ($7.4M); GBP: 1 player ($7.2M); HOU 2 players ($6.5M).

Free Safety simply isn't a position that deserves top money in the NFL. It's like TE's compared to Wide Receivers. CB's get the money because they have the highest skill set and are needed most to stop team's from scoring in this age of Super QB's and Super WR's. If Bates would have followed up his 2020 season with even an 80 PFF grade, then this would be a different conversation. But, his dropoff was steep. There could be a million reasons for it, but that gets handled in the negotiations. Bates needs to explain himself why he had an "average" season for a Free Safety last year. Which way is he trending? If not for the playoffs, Bates might not have even been offered the franchise tag.

Bates is someone the Bengals want to keep. But, they don't need him, especially if he holds out and makes it more about him than the team; or, if he has an inflated idea of his own value either to the team, or around the league. If what we offer isn't good enough, then "Thank you very much for your time here and good luck to you. We certainly will find ways to make good use of the money not spent on you that will get us equal value somewhere on the team."


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/free-safety/


Vonn Bell is overpaid. He's got to go when his contract expires unless he's willing to take a lot less than his last contract and I don't see that happening.

At $12.9M Bates is overpaid. That's $5M more than the 4th most Free Safety or Strong Safety and $5M more than Vonn Bell. We had a great draft and we needed to reign in the monies spent on both Safety positions as it is out of whack with Bates and Bell.

[KoryMac5]

Bell is worth the cash solely due to the hit he put on JuJu…

Last 2 seasons he has been in the low to mid seventies according to PFF at 6 million per season I will take what he brings to the table.

[Kingspoint]

Bell is worth the cash solely due to the hit he put on JuJu…

Last 2 seasons he has been in the low to mid seventies according to PFF at 6 million per season I will take what he brings to the table.

It's perfect right now to have him there while the young Safeties watch, learn and work their tails off to earn playing time. Hopefully, Bates plays here at least next season for the same reason, even at the $12M tag number.

[membengal]

[WVRed]

Just saw where Trae Waynes is unofficially retiring.