Hunter Greene

[RustyJ]

Yikes dawg

This article is rather alarming.

It feels like the stuff beyond velo has been amplified so much in the last five or so years. Used to be every 96 was fairly hard to hit. Anymore it almost feels like the number is truly meaningless if the pitch doesn’t have the right spin, shape, etc. l

[MikeS21]

Maybe they did see it and Greene refuses to change or tried and he just can’t figure it out. We will never know.

You might be right, but that is completely 180 degrees from everything we have heard and read about Hunter Greene. He is still a youngster - one of the youngest players in MLB. I suppose it’s just an adjustment that he is going to have to make.

[mth123]

That jives pretty much exactly with what my eyes told me about his fastball, in that it does have a lot of movement horizontally.

That’s where having a 3rd pitch or functional change up would really benefit again, because if he had an offspeed he could throw that starts by looking like a fastball, that wouldn’t allow them to sit on the FB and square up on the side to side break.

Get him a change up or a 2 seamer, some kind of sinker, a splitter, whatever. I’m just concerned again that’s something he won’t be able to develop at this level.

This exactly. We knew this before teh season even started. We didn't need to see Greene with a near 6 ERA to learn it and we didn't have to waste several months of him not working on it. The "short-cut" of bring ing a guy up to "take his lumps" doesn't work until he has his pitches oin place to adjust with. The purpose of "taking your lumps" is to allow a guy to adjust his approach and pitch mix, but to do that he has to have pitches to mix. With a Fastball/Slider, there aren't a lot of options to adjust with.

[WildcatFan]

This exactly. We knew this before teh season even started. We didn't need to see Greene with a near 6 ERA to learn it and we didn't have to waste several months of him not working on it. The "short-cut" of bring ing a guy up to "take his lumps" doesn't work until he has his pitches oin place to adjust with. The purpose of "taking your lumps" is to allow a guy to adjust his approach and pitch mix, but to do that he has to have pitches to mix. With a Fastball/Slider, there aren't a lot of options to adjust with.

I dunno, he’s not learning to throw a changeup in the middle of a game; he’s learning it in bullpens. He’s gotta throw to somebody, who cares if it’s major leaguers, especially if his coaches can honestly say “We don’t care if you win or get blasted. Your future here is secure, go try it out.”

[mth123]

I dunno, he’s not learning to throw a changeup in the middle of a game; he’s learning it in bullpens. He’s gotta throw to somebody, who cares if it’s major leaguers, especially if his coaches can honestly say “We don’t care if you win or get blasted. Your future here is secure, go try it out.”

I don't think guy is going to throw a pitch that is not major league quality in a big league game with so many eyes on him and with big league team-mates tryingto win games. Getting the Coach or Manager to approve isn't going to get him to cross that line. What gets him to throw it is the clear message "once your change-up is big league quality, we'll give you a big-league look.

I don't think Greene is damaged by getting hit in the big leagues, but I think its going to take longer for him to become what he can be by rushing him. Short-cust almost never work.

[WildcatFan]

I don't think guy is going to throw a pitch that is not major league quality in a big league game with so many eyes on him and with big league team-mates tryingto win games. Getting the Coach or Manager to approve isn't going to get him to cross that line. What gets him to throw it is the clear message "once your change-up is big league quality, we'll give you a big-league look.

I don't think Greene is damaged by getting hit in the big leagues, but I think its going to take longer for him to become what he can be by rushing him. Short-cust almost never work.

You may be right. I’d be interested to talk to a big leaguer about it. This just doesn’t feel like a shortcut to me. He’s got stuff that’s at least playable, potentially remarkable, and he’s got a venue to hone it against the best talent in the world without any real team consequences. If he’s mentally in a place to handle the difficulties that come with that (which seems likely for this kid), let him get those reps.

[M2]

This exactly. We knew this before teh season even started. We didn't need to see Greene with a near 6 ERA to learn it and we didn't have to waste several months of him not working on it. The "short-cut" of bring ing a guy up to "take his lumps" doesn't work until he has his pitches oin place to adjust with. The purpose of "taking your lumps" is to allow a guy to adjust his approach and pitch mix, but to do that he has to have pitches to mix. With a Fastball/Slider, there aren't a lot of options to adjust with.

So I'm going to agree with almost all of that, but add that Greene still would be my exception. He might have to learn the hard way that 100 is not magic.

[corkedbat]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb...BingNewsSearch

Greene better be careful about how many/which questions he asks. Joey'll mess with a rook's head.

[corkedbat]

If Castillo and Mahle are dealt, I'd think if Dunn is healthy, they'll look to he and Minor to eat innings/starts (especially with Greene & Lodolo prolly approaching an innings wall after the deadline).

Would not surprise me to see Williamson debut in August either.

[corkedbat]

If Castillo and Mahle are dealt, I'd think if Dunn is healthy, they'll look to he and Minor to eat innings/starts (especially with Greene & Lodolo prolly approaching an innings wall after the deadline).

Would not surprise me to see Williamson debut in August either.

A season-finishing rotation of Williamson, Dunn - Minor - (Deadline Acquisition) - ???? (Will Greene &/or Lodolo be shut down?)

[CaiGuy]

A season-finishing rotation of Williamson, Dunn - Minor - (Deadline Acquisition) - ???? (Will Greene &/or Lodolo be shut down?)

I don't see why they would shut Lodolo down...he's barely pitched so if anything he needs innings.

With Greene, he only averages about 5 innings a start. So even at 30 starts, that's 150 innings. Maybe they skip a few starts, but even if he plays out the season he may not exceed his innings cap...whatever that is.


There will be injuries, though, so Minor definitely serves a purpose to eat some innings at the least. And we'll see Dunn, Williamson, and some AAAA type guys for sure.

[MoneyInTheBank]

One thing to consider is that if a baseball writer has “identified” Greene’s problem, why hasn’t an actual pitching coach picked up on this and why hasn’t this been worked on while Greene was still in AA?

Either the writer is full of it, or there’s a serious lack of minor league coaching abilities in the Reds minor league system that should have seen this two years ago.

Maybe it's not actually a problem and what the writer identified is noise?

[mth123]

So I'm going to agree with almost all of that, but add that Greene still would be my exception. He might have to learn the hard way that 100 is not magic.

I think he's already learned it. The problem is, since he was brought up before he had his other pitches ready, he doesn't have the things he needs in his bag of tricks to do anything about it. Greene is clearly one of the Reds best 5 starters. Since the Reds aren't trying to win, I'm not interested in having a better 4th or 5th starter than some Vlad type who gets rocked every time. If teh Reds were trying to win I'd want the best five with other considerations secondary to that. Right now, I'm interested in Greene being an Ace for the next 5 to 10 years. I think he could be if he had a change up and a little better command of his slider. Give him Castillo's change and his fastball would go from something guys sit on and punish to something that blows by guys because they'll take just a little longer to be able to identify what's coming.

He may eventually get it, but it may be 2024 or 2025 before he becomes the guy we're all hoping for. We'll never know, but I'd guess if he had three more months in AAA with instruction to get the off-speed pitches up to big league caliber and he'd be there already.

[Big Klu]

Nm

[Old school 1983]

So the lesson is the Hunter Greene needs to grow a sweet pornstache like Spencer Strider.