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Thread: Hunter Greene

  1. #61
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    No that's just using natural ability to dominate inferior players but probably won't work in the big leagues where a lot of guys have that kind of talent. Now he's added a change-up that will aid him to do the same in the big leagues, that's what I call development. Had he not had added that change, I'd be skeptical of hm doing the same in the big leagues, at least as a starter.

    Others who are lacking that development should take a little time to finish the job.
    There’s a balance to be drawn here. Some want a fully “developed” pitcher entering the big leagues. That may not recognize that (a) pitchers can have their best stuff while younger and (b) pitchers can continue to “develop” in the big leagues.

    Especially in today’s era when starting pitchers need not work 6-7 innings. A young SP can begin at 3-4 innings and increase - in the big leagues. I expect Hunter Greene will pitch rather short stints initially. No problem with that.

    Not suggesting this be taken to an extreme. If Reds want to give Lodolo and Ashcraft a little AAA time, no problem. But it’s a decision based on the individual case.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-27-2022 at 09:16 AM.


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  3. #62
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    No that's just using natural ability to dominate inferior players but probably won't work in the big leagues where a lot of guys have that kind of talent. Now he's added a change-up that will aid him to do the same in the big leagues, that's what I call development. Had he not had added that change, I'd be skeptical of hm doing the same in the big leagues, at least as a starter.

    Others who are lacking that development should take a little time to finish the job.
    You can't say that for certain.

    You never could.

    If a SP has two elite pitches, they can be successful. A large amount of modern SP only use two pitches. Many old-school starters also only used two pitches.

    Insisting that a starter has to have three pitches before you bring him up means you wouldn't have brought up a host of ace-level pitchers. 2021 Cy Young Award vote getters who began their careers throwing two pitches 90% of the time or more include many of the best pitchers in the game: Lance Lynn, Tyler Glasnow, Corbin Burnes, Robbie Ray, Nathan Eovaldi, Carlos Rodon, Frankie Montas, and Lance McCullers. That's 8 of the 16 best SP in the game from last season.

    That's also a who's who of great pitching.

    And that, to me, is a helluva lot more than "an outlier."

    It's also proof that there's more than one way to be successful at the major league level.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 03-27-2022 at 10:18 AM.

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    TRF (03-28-2022)

  5. #63
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by bing View Post
    Who's making up for the winker and castellanos subtractions?
    Obviously nobody on a one for one basis.

    But a balanced lineup where everyone top to bottom produces a league average and better OBP/OPS makes this team interesting.
    The black holes are gone.

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    bagz (03-28-2022),Old school 1983 (03-27-2022)

  7. #64
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I'm not too keen on Greene in a Reds uniform if he can't go 5 innings on his good days. That means he can only rack up losses and we run the chance that he develops Cody Reed issues. Leave him in the minors until he can go 90 pitches or so and don't start his major league as a 3-4 inning starter. It'd be nuts to lose a year of control based on that

  8. #65
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    The black holes are gone.
    Hrmm... Not sure we can say that with any certainty.

    Just from where I'm sitting, the entire OF has a real chance to be putrid, Pham included. Starter spots 3 - 5 have a chance to suck massively. So does 3B and SS, not to mention backup catcher.

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    alwaysawarrior (03-28-2022),RiverRat13 (03-27-2022),Sea Ray (03-27-2022)

  10. #66
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    You can't say that for certain.

    You never could.

    If a SP has two elite pitches, they can be successful. A large amount of modern SP only use two pitches. Many old-school starters also only used two pitches.

    Insisting that a starter has to have three pitches before you bring him up means you wouldn't have brought up a host of ace-level pitchers. 2021 Cy Young Award vote getters who began their careers throwing two pitches 90% of the time or more include many of the best pitchers in the game: Lance Lynn, Tyler Glasnow, Corbin Burnes, Robbie Ray, Nathan Eovaldi, Carlos Rodon, Frankie Montas, and Lance McCullers.

    That's a who's who of great pitching.

    And that, to me, is a helluva lot more than "an outlier."

    It's also proof that there's more than one way to be successful at the major league level.
    Rarely does a SP get by with two pitches and if they do, one of them has to be an off speed pitch. Mario Soto did quite well with a FB and a changeup. If all you've got is a FB and a slider, you're Rob Dibble. Not Nolan Ryan

  11. #67
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Rarely does a SP get by with two pitches and if they do, one of them has to be an off speed pitch. Mario Soto did quite well with a FB and a changeup. If all you've got is a FB and a slider, you're Rob Dibble. Not Nolan Ryan
    It’s not the 70s and 80s anymore, though I understand why most Reds fans are stuck in the 70s.

  12. #68
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Unlike the 70s and 80s guys that throw 100 mph are not a unicorn. Guys see this far more often. A 102 mph FB is straight. It doesn't have time to move. Guys will make hard contact over 5-6 innings unless the pitcher changes speeds. It looks like his changeup is coming along nicely but if he can't harness it then make him a closer

  13. #69
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not too keen on Greene in a Reds uniform if he can't go 5 innings on his good days. That means he can only rack up losses and we run the chance that he develops Cody Reed issues. Leave him in the minors until he can go 90 pitches or so and don't start his major league as a 3-4 inning starter. It'd be nuts to lose a year of control based on that
    This is basically a throw away year. Losses shouldn't really matter. Greene's development is what is important. I think spending the year in the major leagues with DJ gives him the best opportunity to continue to improve. This whole manipulating service time shouldn't come into play. Greene has spent more than enough time in the minors, it is time for the next step.

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    Bourgeois Zee (03-27-2022)

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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I can’t speak to whether or not Greene is ready in terms of his pitches and command, but watching him in his two spring training games, he looks extremely confident and comfortable on the mound facing MLB pitchers.

    One of the biggest issues with rushing pitchers is if they are mentally ready for the majors, Cody Reed as a case in point. Greene looks mentally ready.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024

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    Old school 1983 (03-27-2022),Ron Madden (03-27-2022)

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    Re: Hunter Greene

    C. Trent Rosecrans @ctrent

    Hunter Greene is starting again on Thursday against the White Sox



    Charlie Goldsmith @CharlieG__

    The scheduled starters for the Reds this week.

    Monday: Tyler Mahle
    Tuesday: Reiver Sanmartin
    Wednesday: Vladimir Gutierrez
    Thursday: Hunter Greene

    .

  18. #72
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Looks like 1-4 of the rotation might be set. Are there enough off days to not go with 5 and wait for Castillo to come back?

  19. #73
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I have been as critical as anyone when it comes to Hunter Greene and his lack of a third pitch. Greene’s two pitch repertoire works for 3-4 innings (once through the lineup). But once he would get to about the 5th inning, hitters would start teeing off on him.

    The addition of a change is welcome, and the emphasis on throwing it is a huge step forward. Not expecting perfection but progress from Greene.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

  20. #74
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Looks like 1-4 of the rotation might be set. Are there enough off days to not go with 5 and wait for Castillo to come back?
    Maybe they can, with a Johnny All-Staff day in the middle of April.

  21. #75
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Hardly.

    Greene dominated AA. His peripherals in AAA were nearly as dominant.

    That's not hoping. That's development.
    His peripherals in AAA included a scary number of HRs. Let's not jump past that. I'm all for sticking him in the rotation, but his learning curve could be steep.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.


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