Hunter Greene

[alexad]

Give the KID time to develop. This will is only building him to be a better pitcher down the road.

I have no issues Running out Greene, Ashcroft and Lodolo every 5 days.

I wish they would bring up Barrero and do the same thing. Let him play.

This starting rotation of young talent reminds me of when the Braves had Smoltz and Glavine along with some guy names Maddux. They were not good the first year but the experience proved HOF worthy.

I’m not saying that will happen but if the organization wants to go young we have to accept the talent they have. Good talent that will age well over the future.


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[M2]

He's 22 and learning.

He's 22 and we hope he learns, preferably quickly.

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It’s not about how many outs he gets

It's 100% about how many outs he gets.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I think he should add Rivera's cutter, Kershaw's curve, Maddux's 2-seamer and Castillo's change while adding more rise to his 4-seamer

[MikeS21]

Even if Greene adds a change or a cutter or some other pitch, it’s going to take some time to develop. The key is his willingness to adjust. Greene at least has said the right things in the past about learning and adjusting. We’ll see if it’s rhetoric or if he truly is working on adjusting his approach.

[RiverRat13]

So it's probably going to be 2024 at the earliest if/when Hunter reaches his potential. But then they'll have to trade him before the 2026 season to get full value in this new glorious "churning" era that the Reds have supposedly entered.

How fun.

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[Bob Sheed]

So it's probably going to be 2024 at the earliest if/when Hunter reaches his potential. But then they'll have to trade him before the 2026 season to get full value in this new glorious "churning" era that the Reds have supposedly entered.

How fun.

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Right. The "churning" era. Where the prospect is either a bust, or if he is any good, he leaves in 2 or 3 years.

Sounds like a real plan there... You know... like the Rays do it.

[757690]

It's 100% about how many outs he gets.

This is the second time in few days you have been 100% wrong about something essential basic to baseball.

An “out pitch” always has been about a pitcher’s ability to get swing and misses. Remember, BABIP is virtually same for every pitcher, so the outs that set him apart are the strike outs. As mth123 correctly pointed out, if it was only about outs, every pitcher would have an out pitch, as they all get outs around 60-70% of the time.

I am curious what other baseball basic I will need to educate you on next, lol.

[M2]

This is the second time in few days you have been 100% wrong about something essential basic to baseball.

Yep, you're on a roll. You're arguing the point of an out pitch is not to get outs.

[TNRED]

It’s not about how many outs he gets, it’s about how many swings and misses he gets, how many K’s he gets. That has always been the definition of “an out pitch.” Does it get more K’s than average?

That is a definite “yes” for Greene on his fastball. The problem is that he also gives up too many HR’s on his fastball. That means he has an out pitch, but he’s been inconsistent with it. He’s not lacking an out pitch, he’s lacking consistency.

He definitely has an out pitch. it is the one that the batter hits OUT of the park.

[757690]

Yep, you're on a roll. You're arguing the point of an out pitch is not to get outs.

We drive on a parkway and park on a driveway.

A dateline on an article tells us where it written.

The english language is funny sometimes.

[Larry Schuler]

Technically, Greene isn’t a pitcher. He is a baseball player who pitches the ball. Therefore, technically, his pitching has no flaws. His flaws are when he pitches the ball. So, technically, Greene has been an incredible pitcher. It’s when he pitches the ball when there’s an issue.

[mth123]

It’s not about how many outs he gets, it’s about how many swings and misses he gets, how many K’s he gets. That has always been the definition of “an out pitch.” Does it get more K’s than average?

That is a definite “yes” for Greene on his fastball. The problem is that he also gives up too many HR’s on his fastball. That means he has an out pitch, but he’s been inconsistent with it. He’s not lacking an out pitch, he’s lacking consistency.

Tomato, Tomahto. Tons of pitchers get plenty of guys out and give up runs. Call it what you want, but if it's not consistent, it's not an out-pitch IMO. An out pitch means hitters have little chance to square it up when he throws it. That isn't Geene so far.

[mth123]

He's 22 and learning.

I keep seeing this and understand the sentiment, but what's he learning exactly? What he needs to learn is how to pitch with deception while staying in the strike zone. He has a good slider to make guys chase, but its breaks out of the zone. He can get some outs with it, but good hitters seeing him multiple times per game just won't swing at anything they read as a breaking pitch. That brings us back to the fastball. In spite of what's been said in this thread, he has a good fastball, but if big league hitters can sit on it, they will hit a good fastball - that's why they are big league hitters.

IMO, he needs to learn to change speeds. That's where he can get deception and still throw the pitch for a strike. He's not really doing it much in games, so how is he learning?

[mth123]

So it's probably going to be 2024 at the earliest if/when Hunter reaches his potential. But then they'll have to trade him before the 2026 season to get full value in this new glorious "churning" era that the Reds have supposedly entered.

How fun.

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Exactly why I'd rather he "learn" in the minor leagues. There are some lessons he can only learn in the big leagues, but those aren't the things he needs to learn IMO. Working on pitches to get them up to big league quality is something a 22 year old should be doing in AAA games with more repetition and less pressure to throw only the same old stuff he's already developed. He's just burning service time and the Reds will get less out of him because they called him up too soon. They may get one big year out of him before its time to deal him. By waiting, they may have gotten a 4 or 5 year run as a Cy Young contender. He'd get those pitches developed sooner and they'd have him for longer IMO.

[Bob Sheed]

757690 is right about this one. The point of an out pitch is to induce a swing and miss with 2 strikes, so the defense doesn't even have to get involved.