Hunter Greene

[lollipopcurve]

So the fangraphs piece on Greene’s fastball (comparing to Spencer Strider’s), theorizes that Greene has a higher release point and less extension than Strider, which, along with less vertical action, make it more hittable. So, it seems as if there is a confluence of factors that negatively impact his heater. The obvious “fix” would be to get something off speed that tunnels with the fastball. That is so often the final frontier for a starter, and Greene is just starting the journey.

[M2]

So the fangraphs piece on Greene’s fastball (comparing to Spencer Strider’s), theorizes that Greene has a higher release point and less extension than Strider, which, along with less vertical action, make it more hittable. So, it seems as if there is a confluence of factors that negatively impact his heater. The obvious “fix” would be to get something off speed that tunnels with the fastball. That is so often the final frontier for a starter, and Greene is just starting the journey.

This gets back to my question, would he throw that off-speed pitch more often and gain mastery of it sooner in AAA? We've already covered it in this thread that he's working on it, but not throwing it against MLB hitters. I've been on side of keeping him in the majors, but if there's a pitch he needs to develop to succeed and he doesn't feel it can throw it at the MLB level, then he needs to be somewhere else.

[RustyJ]

This is getting circular, but that's true because his four-seamer is not the devastating pitch we hoped it would be be. What you're basically saying is what we thought his meal ticket would be won't buy him a meal. That is true, but it's the sort of uncomfortable fact that should obliterate any complacency about the path Greene is on. He is not the phenom we imagined him to be (e.g. Dwight Gooden). How does he ultimately get good? IMO, it's going to take a lot of work to add the element(s) he needs more than repetition with an insufficient arsenal.

I’ve followed this exact line of reasoning a bunch of times and resigned myself to Greene being just another guy, and then he goes on one of those sporadic stretches where he looks like a runaway Cy Young candidate. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. There’s something unique about him, but it’s not going to be easy like we all hoped.

[GAC]

I’ve followed this exact line of reasoning a bunch of times and resigned myself to Greene being just another guy, and then he goes on one of those sporadic stretches where he looks like a runaway Cy Young candidate. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. There’s something unique about him, but it’s not going to be easy like we all hoped.

Being called baseball's LeBron, or the new Babe Ruth, didn't help.

[M2]

I’ve followed this exact line of reasoning a bunch of times and resigned myself to Greene being just another guy, and then he goes on one of those sporadic stretches where he looks like a runaway Cy Young candidate. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between. There’s something unique about him, but it’s not going to be easy like we all hoped.

He's a pile of potential. You can ride that a long way. Homer Bailey rode it until he was 26 and then he flamed out at 28. I have higher hopes for Greene.

[lollipopcurve]

It’s possible Greene has needed to see his fastball get crushed before he fully commits to exploring meaningful changes. I doubt he’d have hit that wall in AAA.
It’s a good debate and clearly there’s no way to know for sure what’s best for him. Yet I think we’ve seen some evidence that he’s been humbled a little and that he’s working hard to try to figure out a path forward. I prefer for now to see those as positives he’s getting with major league experience. A bit of a fine line to walk, but this is a very mature, grounded kid. And I suspect he’s had enough of a taste of major league success to keep his confidence from bottoming out, provided he doesn’t get hammered regularly in his next bunch of starts. (I also think they’re going to rein in his innings pretty soon.)

[mth123]

Answer is clearly yes, because when you send him down, that's what you'd tell him he needs to do if he wants to be a big-league pitcher. If he hasn't figured it out after a few months, he probably won't and you start thinking about making him a reliever.

I think Greene will get it and end up being a top starter, but he won't if he isn't throwing those pitches and doing it on the side while pitching in the big leagues will take longer. Repetition is still the best way to develop those pitches.

[membengal]

Stats By STATS
@StatsBySTATS
·
18m
Hunter Greene of the
@Reds
is the only MLB rookie in the modern era to have 3 games in which he threw 6.0+ innings with 8+ strikeouts and no more than 1 hit allowed (May 15, June 6 & today).

No pitcher in the modern era (rookie or not) has had more than 3 such games in a season.

[mth123]

Greene with his second strong outing in a row. Very encouraging.

[Patrick Bateman]

Greene is awesome. We’ll learn much from our pitching coach and pitching development team based on how his career goes. Everything is there and just a matter of having the right strategy and adjustments to turn it into consistent results.


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[WrongVerb]

Sick.

He's my new favorite player after Joey.

[HammerTime]

This rebuild happens much quicker if we get this version of Hunter Greene. He’s fun to watch.

[Kingspoint]

This rebuild happens much quicker if we get this version of Hunter Greene. He’s fun to watch.

Not without some bullpen arms.

See thread below this one.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Not without some bullpen arms.

Antone will likely be a massive help next season. Santillan is a solid arm. Sanmartin's been good as a LH middle reliever. Sims, Cessa, and Hoffman, if they're kept, have shown to be slightly better than league average middle relief arms. Diaz looks to be special.

If Mahle, Drury, and company aren't dealt for MLB-ready pitching, the rotation will probably need Dunn. If they get one guy, though, he's another reliever-- and could well be a good one.

They need another top-shelf guy (similar to Diaz and Antone) and two more solid major leaguers (like Hoffman, Cessa, and Sims) for next year. I'd love to see them spend real money on three veteran arms, then let the AAAA guys (Williamson, Kuhnel, Solomon, Moreta, Gibaut, Hendrix, Duarte, et al.) provide depth options.

I'd also like to see them sign a starter to head the rotation. There are a bunch of guys they could sign-- and they have the cash to do it, if they want to.

[Kingspoint]

Antone will likely be a massive help next season. Santillan is a solid arm. Sanmartin's been good as a LH middle reliever. Sims, Cessa, and Hoffman, if they're kept, have shown to be slightly better than league average middle relief arms. Diaz looks to be special.

If Mahle, Drury, and company aren't dealt for MLB-ready pitching, the rotation will probably need Dunn. If they get one guy, though, he's another reliever-- and could well be a good one.

They need another top-shelf guy (similar to Diaz and Antone) and two more solid major leaguers (like Hoffman, Cessa, and Sims) for next year. I'd love to see them spend real money on three veteran arms, then let the AAAA guys (Williamson, Kuhnel, Solomon, Moreta, Gibaut, Hendrix, Duarte, et al.) provide depth options.

I'd also like to see them sign a starter to head the rotation. There are a bunch of guys they could sign-- and they have the cash to do it, if they want to.

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!