Has Moustaukas been the worst position players free agent signing in Reds history?

[missionhockey21]

I mean, its Alf Rod, right?

He wasn't the most expensive, but at least with Shogo he had success in Japan and many teams were in on him. Ludwick had past success with us. Moose was a solid player who was likely propped up by his presence in the clubhouse.

Alf Rod had complete questions on his hit tools and limited plate discipline. We paid 7 million hoping he would find it. From what I remembered, not that he wasn't without a market, but we came in STRONG to get him. Obviously, a day one ready kind of guy for the field, but that signing would have been defensible if he was a weak contact hitter who had a fantastic eye at the plate and tremendous speed, neither of which he had. I really never understood that one. Especially since it knocked us out of international signing periods the next two seasons, AND we paid a luxury tax on the signing.

I mean, he had a .284 slugging in Cuba while batting only .265... and our scouting thought he was on the cusp, of something.

[fearofpopvol1]

I mean, its Alf Rod, right?

He wasn't the most expensive, but at least with Shogo he had success in Japan and many teams were in on him. Ludwick had past success with us. Moose was a solid player who was likely propped up by his presence in the clubhouse.

Alf Rod had complete questions on his hit tools and limited plate discipline. We paid 7 million hoping he would find it. From what I remembered, not that he wasn't without a market, but we came in STRONG to get him. Obviously, a day one ready kind of guy for the field, but that signing would have been defensible if he was a weak contact hitter who had a fantastic eye at the plate and tremendous speed, neither of which he had. I really never understood that one. Especially since it knocked us out of international signing periods the next two seasons, AND we paid a luxury tax on the signing.

I mean, he had a .284 slugging in Cuba while batting only .265... and our scouting thought he was on the cusp, of something.

He has to be in the conversation too, even though it wasn't a ton of coin.

[missionhockey21]

To me, the greatest sin of that was that it took us out of the international market outside of 300k signings for the next two periods. You only do that for a slam dunk, no-doubter prospect, which he wasn't. If we didn't have that penalty, I wouldn't think as harshly on it (especially as that international class had guys who it would have been worth it to do it for.)

[RedsFanInMS]

I mean, its Alf Rod, right?

He wasn't the most expensive, but at least with Shogo he had success in Japan and many teams were in on him. Ludwick had past success with us. Moose was a solid player who was likely propped up by his presence in the clubhouse.

Alf Rod had complete questions on his hit tools and limited plate discipline. We paid 7 million hoping he would find it. From what I remembered, not that he wasn't without a market, but we came in STRONG to get him. Obviously, a day one ready kind of guy for the field, but that signing would have been defensible if he was a weak contact hitter who had a fantastic eye at the plate and tremendous speed, neither of which he had. I really never understood that one. Especially since it knocked us out of international signing periods the next two seasons, AND we paid a luxury tax on the signing.

I mean, he had a .284 slugging in Cuba while batting only .265... and our scouting thought he was on the cusp, of something.

Yeah, that was really, really bad scouting

[mth123]

Its easily Moose. Biggest FA contract in team history, was signed to play out of position, and he's been pretty unproductive. Now he looks like he can't even bend over to pick up a ground ball and his defensive result support that. JUst a horrible idea to sign him IMO.

I was a fan at first and its probably not his fault he's injured and out of shape (hard to stay in shape when you can't be up on your feet) but his signing was a bad idea that worked out even worse than anyone imagined.

[Wonderful Monds]

It seems to me that without the Moose contract, the Reds might have been able to "manage" payroll this year without dumping someone. That could mean keeping Miley or Winker or Gray.

I don't want the Reds to "try" signing older, vet players for big contracts because they're so BAD at doing so.

They could’ve done that anyway lol


They would’ve slashed payroll with or without Moose.

[Indymoon]

They could’ve done that anyway lol


They would’ve slashed payroll with or without Moose.

Agree that they probably would have slashed some payroll but might have kept 1 of the guys dumped if not for his $16M salary.

[KronoRed]

Agree that they probably would have slashed some payroll but might have kept 1 of the guys dumped if not for his $16M salary.

Probably not, just more money into the lock box.

[Redhook]

Its easily Moose. Biggest FA contract in team history, was signed to play out of position, and he's been pretty unproductive. Now he looks like he can't even bend over to pick up a ground ball and his defensive result support that. JUst a horrible idea to sign him IMO.

I was a fan at first and its probably not his fault he's injured and out of shape (hard to stay in shape when you can't be up on your feet) but his signing was a bad idea that worked out even worse than anyone imagined.

I agree. As far as staying in shape, he could swim. When I tore my ACL, I swam a lot because walking was painful and I had no endurance. There’s no excuse for him to be overweight and out of shape.

[JFLegal]

by far the worst signing, period (not just hitters). $64M down the tubes.

guaranteed contracts are so stupid. nothing prevents a dude from getting fat and not caring any longer. there should be some incentive for not sucking.

[NebraskaRed]

If not the worst, it's gotta be top 3.

I think it's pretty telling that Moose goes on the IL (again) and almost nobody is talking about how long he'll be out.

[JFLegal]

I mean, its Alf Rod, right?

He wasn't the most expensive, but at least with Shogo he had success in Japan and many teams were in on him. Ludwick had past success with us. Moose was a solid player who was likely propped up by his presence in the clubhouse.

Alf Rod had complete questions on his hit tools and limited plate discipline. We paid 7 million hoping he would find it. From what I remembered, not that he wasn't without a market, but we came in STRONG to get him. Obviously, a day one ready kind of guy for the field, but that signing would have been defensible if he was a weak contact hitter who had a fantastic eye at the plate and tremendous speed, neither of which he had. I really never understood that one. Especially since it knocked us out of international signing periods the next two seasons, AND we paid a luxury tax on the signing.

I mean, he had a .284 slugging in Cuba while batting only .265... and our scouting thought he was on the cusp, of something.

everything you say is true, except one thing:

blowing $7M is far better than blowing $64M. moose was by far the worst signing. by a margin of a mere $57M.

[Wonderful Monds]

Agree that they probably would have slashed some payroll but might have kept 1 of the guys dumped if not for his $16M salary.

I think it would’ve been reasonable if they had gotten rid of a couple guys had Moose not worked out/they were otherwise not contending. I think that’s a reasonable level of risk to take. Like if the risk was that if Moose’s contract was a bust, they’d have to still trade say Gray and Miley, I think that’s fair. I wouldn’t stop handing out free agent contracts if that was the consequence.

Even the best teams have to retool when they go for it and it doesn’t work out. I was already for exploring a Winker trade as of last August/September before the teardown began. (I mean, you know for legit prospects, not a salary dump.) If Moose had worked out, you had yourself a lower-mid 800s OPS bat with clubhouse leadership. He was looking like he was worth every penny before the plantar fasciitis.

Crud happens, but honestly a ~60 million contract not working out in this day and age of baseball really shouldn’t be the end of the world.

[Wonderful Monds]

by far the worst signing, period (not just hitters). $64M down the tubes.

guaranteed contracts are so stupid. nothing prevents a dude from getting fat and not caring any longer. there should be some incentive for not sucking.

It’s been a pretty absurd last year or so of people dumping on Moose and saying that he obviously doesn’t give a damn and he let himself get fat and etc etc

He looked normal as ever pre foot injury. After plantar fasciitis, it’s not too shocking that he’s not in the best condition. I dunno what else to say, injuries happen.

[missionhockey21]

everything you say is true, except one thing:

blowing $7M is far better than blowing $64M. moose was by far the worst signing. by a margin of a mere $57M.

My point was that at the time of signing, Alf Rod looked to be a complete dud. He turned out to be everything we feared. And the intentional signing limitations cost the Reds in opportunity for the next two seasons.

Moose had questions, but turned into a colossal failure beyond what the skeptics even thought.

In a hindsight view, I agree it’s the worst position player signing by the dollar. But from start to stop, Alf Rod never inspired beyond his glove. I at least got why the Reds signed Moose at the time unlike Rodriguez.

I’m in a bad headspace when it comes to this org so ignore how illogical my contempt for them and their decisions are.