The New “The Trade” Results

[HammerTime]

Suarez is striking out at a 31.7% right now. He was among the worst everyday players in the league last year. In any other situation, we’d be saying that the guy is cooked and as soon as less of his fly balls find the seats or his walk rate decreases, he’s not going to be having a good time. His slash line would be considered meh if he were anyone else. .224/.317/.442 isn’t good. Acting like it is because the ball got unjuiced this year is a pretty weak take. Great he stinks like normal, but the league stinks a little more so it’s ok. Suarez didn’t hit many wall scrappers, so I’m thinking the unjuiced ball is impacting him less.

@DaWink33
Eugenio Suarez since September of last year:

67 G, 262 PA, .273/.366/.581 (.947 OPS) 17 HR, 166 wRC+, 2.8 fWAR

His 166 wRC+ is tied for 7th with Juan Soto

[Wonderful Monds]

A primary reason not to make expensive blunders like Moustakas. You end up making reactive moves you wouldn't (perhaps) make otherwise.

I mean they were more than capable of paying every single player they got rid of this off-season.

[HokieRed]

I mean they were more than capable of paying every single player they got rid of this off-season.

Of course they were, but don't tell me it's not a human tendency to do stupid things in response to previously accomplished stupidities. Any management that doesn't understand they may do that has not really come to term with its own limitations.

[Old school 1983]

@DaWink33
Eugenio Suarez since September of last year:

67 G, 262 PA, .273/.366/.581 (.947 OPS) 17 HR, 166 wRC+, 2.8 fWAR

His 166 wRC+ is tied for 7th with Juan Soto

He’s had a nice few months. Doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s been very not good over the past 2 seasons. I do wish him all the luck in the world. He seemed like a great guy and was super fun to cheer for. It seemed that his decline started when he hurt his shoulder. Maybe that’s finally at full strength again.

Even if he bounces back, I still can’t fault the Reds for moving him. He had stunk up the joint for 2 seasons sans September, which has generally be the least reliable month to draw any conclusions from in baseball.

[Sea Ray]

I'm really pleased to see Suarez doing so well and I hope he has a bounce-back season but he is leading the league in strikeouts, 58. Adam Dunn led the league in strikeouts 3x before eclipsing 218 K's which is the pace that Suarez is on. To his credit, he's played in 42 of 43 games for the Mariners this year. That's durability that we don't see in this town

[MoneyInTheBank]

He’s had a nice few months. Doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s been very not good over the past 2 seasons. I do wish him all the luck in the world. He seemed like a great guy and was super fun to cheer for. It seemed that his decline started when he hurt his shoulder. Maybe that’s finally at full strength again.

Even if he bounces back, I still can’t fault the Reds for moving him. He had stunk up the joint for 2 seasons sans September, which has generally be the least reliable month to draw any conclusions from in baseball.

I fault the Reds for attaching him to a premium asset to dump his salary at the absolute basement of his value

[Old school 1983]

I fault the Reds for attaching him to a premium asset to dump his salary at the absolute basement of his value

What happens if he didn’t bounce back? What if this bounce back is nothing more than a hot month? Then how do you move him?

[mth123]

What happens if he didn’t bounce back? What if this bounce back is nothing more than a hot month? Then how do you move him?

Then you have one less year of obligation. He doesn't really make that much money.

[MoneyInTheBank]

What happens if he didn’t bounce back? What if this bounce back is nothing more than a hot month? Then how do you move him?

1. He already cost them value in the Winker trade. Nothing he does going forward will ever change that
2. Every paycheck he receives is less money owed. Salary dump trades will always be there
3. 2021 was, by far, his worst season. It doesn't take much mental gymnastics to have expected some sort of bounce back

If they miss out on Minor and Solano to take the chance? I wouldn't have lost a wink of sleep. Geno may be cooked. It doesn't change the fact that it was a poor use of assets for a team who plans to make a living maximizing the value of their assets.

[LeatherPants]

The amount of mental energy that goes into defending the front office could have been used for inventing teleportation or something else cool. Instead it’s post after post how the Reds just couldn’t take the chance Geno might not bounce back because they are so unbelievably poor.

[Old school 1983]

The amount of mental energy that goes into defending the front office could have been used for inventing teleportation or something else cool. Instead it’s post after post how the Reds just couldn’t take the chance Geno might not bounce back because they are so unbelievably poor.

Suarez has sucked….flat sucked for the past 2 seasons. No denying it. No amount of saying defending the front office changes that. $11M was likely the difference between bringing back a starter like Gray or Miley or not. Or bringing in a back of the bullpen arm, or when combined with Winker’s money, bringing in a high quality position player or starting pitcher in the next couple years. So yeah, it’s a big deal whether they are cheap or not.

On one hand they supposedly have all this money to retain players, or eat garbage, but on the other, there’s no way they’ll spend money on outside resources in the next couple years. Or using the first two months of this seasons iteration of Suarez being paired with last years Winker being used to show how extra dumb the Reds are, rather than taking what they were at the time of the trade.

Like I said a few posts back, if any of the players acquired do anything with the Reds, you all will just say they got lucky. If they spend the money on superior players in the next couple years, you’ll act like it really wasn’t the same money or somehow they could retain both with mystery millions that have never went to the payroll at any point in the teams history.

Moving Suarez’s money was a reasonable risk to take, so long as use it in the coming years.

I’ll let you all teleport out to Seattle now. Seems like a good chunk of you would rather cheer for the Ms anyway.

[757690]

1. He already cost them value in the Winker trade.

I’m in the minority, but I disagree with this.

Trading Suarez was a salary dump for the Reds, they considered him too expensive. But that just reveals how cheap the Reds ownership is. Geno’s salary still a good deal for any team. He was owed at the time, $35M for three season. It doesn’t take much for him to earn that, about 1.5 WAR a season. Risk/reward on that contract for him is highly favored toward the reward side.

Smart teams understand this, so a smart team wouldn’t feel the need to offer less in a trade to take on his contract. My guess is that the Mariners considered Suarez at neutral value, and were willing to take his contract off the Reds hands for free. His inclusion likely did not affect the return for Winker.

It’s easy to overvalue Winker, he rakes and is fun to watch. But his overall value isn’t that high. Two solid B prospect and 2 fill in players is about right for his value. I know all think he should demand an elite prospect in return for him, but he’s not elite, at least not overall.

[Ron Madden]

Suarez has sucked….flat sucked for the past 2 seasons. No denying it. No amount of saying defending the front office changes that. $11M was likely the difference between bringing back a starter like Gray or Miley or not. Or bringing in a back of the bullpen arm, or when combined with Winker’s money, bringing in a high quality position player or starting pitcher in the next couple years. So yeah, it’s a big deal whether they are cheap or not.

Moving Suarez’s money was a reasonable risk to take, so long as use it in the coming years.

I’ll let you all teleport out to Seattle now. Seems like a good chunk of you would rather cheer for the Ms anyway.

But they dumped Geno's $11M along with what they would've had to pay Gray and Miley.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I’m in the minority, but I disagree with this.

Trading Suarez was a salary dump for the Reds, they considered him too expensive. But that just reveals how cheap the Reds ownership is. Geno’s salary still a good deal for any team. He was owed at the time, $35M for three season. It doesn’t take much for him to earn that, about 1.5 WAR a season. Risk/reward on that contract for him is highly favored toward the reward side.

Smart teams understand this, so a smart team wouldn’t feel the need to offer less in a trade to take on his contract. My guess is that the Mariners considered Suarez at neutral value, and were willing to take his contract off the Reds hands for free. His inclusion likely did not affect the return for Winker.

It’s easy to overvalue Winker, he rakes and is fun to watch. But his overall value isn’t that high. Two solid B prospect and 2 fill in players is about right for his value. I know all think he should demand an elite prospect in return for him, but he’s not elite, at least not overall.

I don't agree but this is a reasonable take

[MoneyInTheBank]

Suarez has sucked….flat sucked for the past 2 seasons. No denying it. No amount of saying defending the front office changes that. $11M was likely the difference between bringing back a starter like Gray or Miley or not. Or bringing in a back of the bullpen arm, or when combined with Winker’s money, bringing in a high quality position player or starting pitcher in the next couple years. So yeah, it’s a big deal whether they are cheap or not.

On one hand they supposedly have all this money to retain players, or eat garbage, but on the other, there’s no way they’ll spend money on outside resources in the next couple years. Or using the first two months of this seasons iteration of Suarez being paired with last years Winker being used to show how extra dumb the Reds are, rather than taking what they were at the time of the trade.

Like I said a few posts back, if any of the players acquired do anything with the Reds, you all will just say they got lucky. If they spend the money on superior players in the next couple years, you’ll act like it really wasn’t the same money or somehow they could retain both with mystery millions that have never went to the payroll at any point in the teams history.

Moving Suarez’s money was a reasonable risk to take, so long as use it in the coming years.

I’ll let you all teleport out to Seattle now. Seems like a good chunk of you would rather cheer for the Ms anyway.

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