What Do Reds Value in Moustakas and Senzel?

[Ky Fried Redleg]

right, but this isn't the NFL. the reds can't just cut him and recoup any of their money. every penny is guaranteed, so they are going to pay moose regardless. no one thinks he should be an everyday starter who gets 500 ABs in a season. so, then the reds have two choices: cut him and eat the remaining $30M+ (including the buyout for 2024), or keep him through the 2023 season as a spot starter/DH/pinch hitter since the reds are going to lose that money regardless.

i would say the best of the terrible options is to just keep moose through 2023 as a bench/DH type of player. unless it's crystal clear he is blocking a better player from being on the roster (so not schrock) then not sure what the reds would stand to gain by cutting him.

my goodness MLB players have it good. guaranteed contracts? if any sport should have guaranteed contracts, it's the violent NFL. pretty crazy how there is no accountability for players like moose who sign a $64M contract (with a small market team no less) and completely suck. teams should be allowed to get some type of insurance or something. (we could call it "suck insurance.")

Jmo , but it seems to me that Moose, with the 64 mil guaranteed, has never seemed super motivated to be in tip top shape to excel as the Major League level. I do think he was overvalued by the Reds when they signed him but he could have been better had he taken it upon himself to stay in better baseball shape. I know that's probably a minority opinion on here but I think he could have been more productive had he not been so lazy in working to stay a Major League caliber hitter and fielder.

[CySeymour]

Jmo , but it seems to me that Moose, with the 64 mil guaranteed, has never seemed super motivated to be in tip top shape to excel as the Major League level. I do think he was overvalued by the Reds when they signed him but he could have been better had he taken it upon himself to stay in better baseball shape. I know that's probably a minority opinion on here but I think he could have been more productive had he not been so lazy in working to stay a Major League caliber hitter and fielder.

And you know he didn't put in the work how? If he was that lazy, fine, but just because he isn't productive doesn't prove anything about how hard he's working. Through injury and age, it's more likely that his skills have just eroded and he just simply isn't that good anymore.

[OldFashionedRed]

right, but this isn't the NFL. the reds can't just cut him and recoup any of their money. every penny is guaranteed, so they are going to pay moose regardless. no one thinks he should be an everyday starter who gets 500 ABs in a season. so, then the reds have two choices: cut him and eat the remaining $30M+ (including the buyout for 2024), or keep him through the 2023 season as a spot starter/DH/pinch hitter since the reds are going to lose that money regardless.

i would say the best of the terrible options is to just keep moose through 2023 as a bench/DH type of player. unless it's crystal clear he is blocking a better player from being on the roster (so not schrock) then not sure what the reds would stand to gain by cutting him.

my goodness MLB players have it good. guaranteed contracts? if any sport should have guaranteed contracts, it's the violent NFL. pretty crazy how there is no accountability for players like moose who sign a $64M contract (with a small market team no less) and completely suck. teams should be allowed to get some type of insurance or something. (we could call it "suck insurance.")

It's one thing to have a bad season, but what bothers me in the accountability department is that he's been out of shape for HOW LONG NOW? He looks like a slob out there, like he just got off a night shift folding carboard boxes and downing an XL mountain dew and a box of doughnuts. The guy is struggling at least in part due to his lack of appreciation for the opportunity. Like you said, no accountability, and a strong players union. Both the NBA and MLB need what I call a "hard reset". Just stop paying players more than what doctors and teachers make. Return to the days of players holding jobs in the offseason. Sorry for the bitterness.

[Z-Fly]

That's a heck of alot of money to pay a bench player with his contract.. no way!!

The money is already spent. The only decision now is does he make the team better or worse than someone in AAA. Or is it worth spending even more money on the open market to replace that roster spot.

[Tony Cloninger]

The only pedigree that Senzel has is injury prone and unable to play over any injury or produce much. But he has to play because he had some pedigree from a long long time ago. The loser mentality of let’s just play those 2 because it’s a lost year because the better producing players are fungible and not part of the future. Great stuff. The #1 pick is not guaranteed so why not play the fungible since the Reds have been so good at developing their own over the last 5 years.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

And you know he didn't put in the work how? If he was that lazy, fine, but just because he isn't productive doesn't prove anything about how hard he's working. Through injury and age, it's more likely that his skills have just eroded and he just simply isn't that good anymore.

I don't know how much/little work he's put in. I know he had the foot problem last season that kept him out of action. I was hoping to see him come to camp in the best shape of his life coming off last year but it didn't appear to be he case. Maybe someone can offer proof to the contrary , but it seemed the guy could not even get to a lot of balls hit near him at third. He may have been in amazing shape but he didn't look it.

[Wonderful Monds]

It's one thing to have a bad season, but what bothers me in the accountability department is that he's been out of shape for HOW LONG NOW? He looks like a slob out there, like he just got off a night shift folding carboard boxes and downing an XL mountain dew and a box of doughnuts. The guy is struggling at least in part due to his lack of appreciation for the opportunity. Like you said, no accountability, and a strong players union. Both the NBA and MLB need what I call a "hard reset". Just stop paying players more than what doctors and teachers make. Return to the days of players holding jobs in the offseason. Sorry for the bitterness.

Good lord, the standards for this board have really gone in the tank.

[Wonderful Monds]

right, but this isn't the NFL. the reds can't just cut him and recoup any of their money. every penny is guaranteed, so they are going to pay moose regardless. no one thinks he should be an everyday starter who gets 500 ABs in a season. so, then the reds have two choices: cut him and eat the remaining $30M+ (including the buyout for 2024), or keep him through the 2023 season as a spot starter/DH/pinch hitter since the reds are going to lose that money regardless.

i would say the best of the terrible options is to just keep moose through 2023 as a bench/DH type of player. unless it's crystal clear he is blocking a better player from being on the roster (so not schrock) then not sure what the reds would stand to gain by cutting him.

my goodness MLB players have it good. guaranteed contracts? if any sport should have guaranteed contracts, it's the violent NFL. pretty crazy how there is no accountability for players like moose who sign a $64M contract (with a small market team no less) and completely suck. teams should be allowed to get some type of insurance or something. (we could call it "suck insurance.")

I’m fully against the idea that MLBers shouldn’t have guaranteed contracts, but this does give me an idea….


What if there was some kind of “competitive balance” pool wherein teams could cut a guy off their roster and not be on the hook for his salary anymore, which would then be paid by a general fund maintained by the league?

Maybe you would have to limit it only one guy every season/every few seasons, or like you can’t do it again until that original guy’s contract would’ve ended.

But it would certainly give the “small market” teams more incentive to take a risk and spend/try to compete.

[westofyou]

It's one thing to have a bad season, but what bothers me in the accountability department is that he's been out of shape for HOW LONG NOW? He looks like a slob out there, like he just got off a night shift folding carboard boxes and downing an XL mountain dew and a box of doughnuts. The guy is struggling at least in part due to his lack of appreciation for the opportunity. Like you said, no accountability, and a strong players union. Both the NBA and MLB need what I call a "hard reset". Just stop paying players more than what doctors and teachers make. Return to the days of players holding jobs in the offseason. Sorry for the bitterness.

The combined revenue of all Major League Baseball teams was 9.56 billion U.S. dollars in 2020

But the players need to work that second job to get respect.

Okay

- - - Updated - - -

As for what do the Reds value in Moose... Williams was on the watch when they signed him and left the team 10 months later so I'm thinking that maybe nobody valued him more than Williams?

[#13]

Senzel was part of the discussion on Extra Innings over the weekend. I thought it was just me, but Senzel just looks like he doesn't enjoy any part of playing baseball. He just seems miserable and not enjoying the game. He is finally healthy but just doesn't seem to have anything special about his game. Also, I noticed whenever he puts out any effort at all on the field, its the same painful look on his face, bending over at the waist, and grabbing both knees. Something just doesn't seem right about him. Just my opinion, and hopefully he can turn things around in the second half and make some sort of offensive impact on the field....his career is slipping away.

[LeatherPants]

I’m fully against the idea that MLBers shouldn’t have guaranteed contracts, but this does give me an idea….


What if there was some kind of “competitive balance” pool wherein teams could cut a guy off their roster and not be on the hook for his salary anymore, which would then be paid by a general fund maintained by the league?

Maybe you would have to limit it only one guy every season/every few seasons, or like you can’t do it again until that original guy’s contract would’ve ended.

But it would certainly give the “small market” teams more incentive to take a risk and spend/try to compete.

This is a really good idea that the large market teams would never go for.

[westofyou]

Interesting comp

Rk	Name	From	To	       Age	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	OPS+
1	Mike Moustakas	2022	2022	33	46	177	151	19	33	6	0	3	14	2	0	19	35	.219	.322	.318	.640	48	4	5	0	2	0	73
2	Jesse Winker	2022	2022	28	66	278	234	20	49	9	0	4	24	0	0	42	50	.209	.327	.299	.626	70	4	0	0	2	1	8

[Chip R]

This is a direct result of MLB players having such a strong union.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Chip R]

I’m fully against the idea that MLBers shouldn’t have guaranteed contracts, but this does give me an idea….


What if there was some kind of “competitive balance” pool wherein teams could cut a guy off their roster and not be on the hook for his salary anymore, which would then be paid by a general fund maintained by the league?

Maybe you would have to limit it only one guy every season/every few seasons, or like you can’t do it again until that original guy’s contract would’ve ended.

But it would certainly give the “small market” teams more incentive to take a risk and spend/try to compete.

I saw some writer tweet about that this spring and I saved it for a while but finally deleted it from my bookmarks. Called it amnesty, I think. Moose would be the perfect candidate for that.

[westofyou]

Nothing wrong with that.

Minimum salary for MLB players in 1947 was $5,000. Twenty years later in 1967 it was $6,000

Hence they now have union and guys don't sell insurance in Spartanburg all winter