NCAA Football 2022

[BuckeyeRed27]

If that's all they were after, it's weird they didn't just go get Syracuse earlier. At least Syracuse is sometimes good at something.

I’m betting it’s a different TV market.

[bucksfan2]

DID Rutgers bring that market, though?

Yes they did. On the field it has been horrible, but in terms on the market it has been great.

From a pure market perspective, WVU would bring Charlestown (to the B1G.) It would be similar to grabbing Toledo (75 vs 80.)

I think you can make an argument that some of the more recent Big12 additions would be better grabs than WVU, mainly UC and Houston.

[Boston Red]

I’m betting it’s a different TV market.

Of course the Syracuse market is different, but Syracuse would also bring the NYC market (at least to the same extent Rutgers "brought it").

[BuckeyeRed27]

Of course the Syracuse market is different, but Syracuse would also bring the NYC market (at least to the same extent Rutgers "brought it").

Not economically. The Big Ten Network (or the SEC Network etc) gets a higher per subscriber payout for in market vs out of market. I’m not sure of the current numbers but at one point it was something like $.35 for in network and $.03 for out of network. So Rutgers basically brings in $.35 for everyone that has a cable or streaming package in New York and New Jersey and Syracuse would have brought in $.35 for everyone in Ithaca and Buffalo and the same $.03 as everyone else does for NYC. That’s why Rutgers gets the privilege of losing 49-7 every week.

[Boston Red]

That's pretty silly. Would Chicago be considered "in market" for Illinois? I know it doesn't matter in that case since Northwestern also....exists. But it's pretty goofy.

[Assembly Hall]

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

West Virginia moves my needle more than Georgia Tech.

[adkindo]

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

just wanted to point out that WVU is #15 in wins within FBS Football and #20 in NCAA Basketball wins. I think there are only 3 schools that are on both lists.....Top 20 FBS wins and Top 20 NCAA Basketball wins....Notre Dame, Texas and WVU.

[adkindo]

What does WVU bring to the table? I feel like they were the program during conference realignment that benefitted the most.

They are a good football (and basketball) program, but they really don't bring an national profile, don't bring a fertile recruiting area, and for the B1G don't bring AAU status.

Since joining the Big 12 they have been a middle of the pack football team. IMO their sweet spot was the former Big East.

I am not making a case that WVU should be in the SEC or any conference, but I think you are slightly underselling the program. WVU totally bungled the move to the Big12 and truly still trying to overcome those mistakes. WVU believed they needed to act, play and recruit like a Big12 team early on, and it was a disaster. WVU brought in Dana who supported that belief, and WVU lost most of their recruiting pipelines that Doc Holiday had spent decades building, and tried to recruit in traditional Big12 territory. It did not go well. WVU which had been built around athleticism, speed and running the ball decided we must become a full air raid team in the Big12, and nearly quit playing defense. While Neal Brown has not corrected the ship in wins, he has corrected the ship in regards to recruiting, culture, etc. and it clearly is showing in our recruiting classes that have returned the focus to Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. If you think those Major Harris teams or Pat White teams could only compete in the Big East, then I strongly disagree.

In regards to national profile....it is not a blue blood and does not have the large population in the home state....but it punches above it's weight in national profile as much as any school in the country. The Flying WV is annually voted one of the most recognizable college athletic logo's in the country.

Still, WVU is a tough fit as it has a fan base that fits in the SEC in regards to cultural similarities and level of interest/passion....but not in size with the top half of the SEC. At the same time, athletically and geographically it belongs in the ACC. The Big12 is a solid fit in regards to athletics, culture and academics....yet it is an outlier geographically.

[Assembly Hall]

I am not making a case that WVU should be in the SEC or any conference, but I think you are slightly underselling the program. WVU totally bungled the move to the Big12 and truly still trying to overcome those mistakes. WVU believed they needed to act, play and recruit like a Big12 team early on, and it was a disaster. WVU brought in Dana who supported that belief, and WVU lost most of their recruiting pipelines that Doc Holiday had spent decades building, and tried to recruit in traditional Big12 territory. It did not go well. WVU which had been built around athleticism, speed and running the ball decided we must become a full air raid team in the Big12, and nearly quit playing defense. While Neal Brown has not corrected the ship in wins, he has corrected the ship in regards to recruiting, culture, etc. and it clearly is showing in our recruiting classes that have returned the focus to Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. If you think those Major Harris teams or Pat White teams could only compete in the Big East, then I strongly disagree.

In regards to national profile....it is not a blue blood and does not have the large population in the home state....but it punches above it's weight in national profile as much as any school in the country. The Flying WV is annually voted one of the most recognizable college athletic logo's in the country.

Still, WVU is a tough fit as it has a fan base that fits in the SEC in regards to cultural similarities and level of interest/passion....but not in size with the top half of the SEC. At the same time, athletically and geographically it belongs in the ACC. The Big12 is a solid fit in regards to athletics, culture and academics....yet it is an outlier geographically.

Add to it, WV has a history of playing many ACC schools even before they were in the ACC.

[Chip R]

Sally Jenkins has an interesting column in the Washington Post about this. She's not wrong that this is all about making money and the SCOTUS decision led to all of this but before that you could only get two games a week on TV on one network. I realize that decision let the cat out of the bag and ultimately led to what we have now but was it better before? BTW, the article is free.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...t-big-ten-sec/

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sally Jenkins has an interesting column in the Washington Post about this. She's not wrong that this is all about making money and the SCOTUS decision led to all of this but before that you could only get two games a week on TV on one network. I realize that decision let the cat out of the bag and ultimately led to what we have now but was it better before? BTW, the article is free.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...t-big-ten-sec/

College football is absolutely better than it was in whatever time period you want to argue.

It doesn’t mean it’s perfect now.

[adkindo]

Add to it, WV has a history of playing many ACC schools even before they were in the ACC.

I will always wish Miami never started this mess.....I loved the old Big East with Miami, Cuse, BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Rutgers and WVU. It is hard to make a case that any of those programs have benefitted from exiting the conference. Miami was a national power winning natty's in the Big East.....Va. Tech was surging as much as any team in the country coming off a National Championship game appearance a few years before exiting.....Pitt, Cuse and WVU were competitive tough outs most years....and believe it or not even BC and Rutgers had periods of relevancy in the Big East that they have not had since exiting.....and Temple just sucked.

[adkindo]

College football is absolutely better than it was in whatever time period you want to argue.

It doesn’t mean it’s perfect now.

I personally disagree....I do not think the SEC and the Southeast in general (Clemson, FSU, etc.) total dominance of college football over the past decade and a half has been healthy at all for the sport overall. I recently read that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are responsible for 15 of the last 16 National Championships (Ohio State in 2014). It has nearly killed college football West of the Rocky Mountains. If you look at the 15 years before that period....a lot of common blue blood names, but spread across the country....USC, Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington. I think that period was much healthier for the sport.

[Slyder]

I will always wish Miami never started this mess.....I loved the old Big East with Miami, Cuse, BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Rutgers and WVU. It is hard to make a case that any of those programs have benefitted from exiting the conference. Miami was a national power winning natty's in the Big East.....Va. Tech was surging as much as any team in the country coming off a National Championship game appearance a few years before exiting.....Pitt, Cuse and WVU were competitive tough outs most years....and believe it or not even BC and Rutgers had periods of relevancy in the Big East that they have not had since exiting.....and Temple just sucked.

The old Big East was doomed from the moment they rejected Penn State. Football was driving the bus and the basketball schools had more control. Had the football schools done what was needed I still believe the Big East would have been relevant and the ACC would NOT have been able to poach BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Va Tech. Miami still likely goes but there had been more schools in the fold by then to absorb the blow.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I personally disagree....I do not think the SEC and the Southeast in general (Clemson, FSU, etc.) total dominance of college football over the past decade and a half has been healthy at all for the sport overall. I recently read that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are responsible for 15 of the last 16 National Championships (Ohio State in 2014). It has nearly killed college football West of the Rocky Mountains. If you look at the 15 years before that period....a lot of common blue blood names, but spread across the country....USC, Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington. I think that period was much healthier for the sport.

College football has always been pretty cyclical though. A big part of that has been Alabama and Nick Saban and he can’t live forever (right? Probably?). And part of the reason you had more parity prior to 2001 was because of the nonsense way college football selected it’s national champion. Also I have a degree from USC and I can assure you that college football isn’t dead on the west coast even if they haven’t been as competitive in the last decade. They’ll be fine.

There seems to be longing and nostalgia for bowl era and I don’t get that at all. We want to go back to BYU winning a national championship after they beat a 5 loss team in the Holiday Bowl for example? Or just what would be playoff teams playing in their obligated bowl games and not against each other which happened basically every season? The playoffs have been a huge upgrade to college football, even if they aren’t perfect by any means.

There also seems to be a lot of complaints about money. Players get NIL now. All the conference realignment is just about money. Yeah? It wasn’t about money when the Southwest Conference literally imploded from cheating and SMU got the death penalty? Conferences have realigned pretty regularly since the invention of college football. It’s always been about money. It always will be about money. Maybe they are a little more honest about it now so people can’t pretend that their school and conference is the morally superior one or whatever.

I don’t like the general messiness of college football change that is basically a function of their not being any central leadership. But that doesn’t mean that the change that happens isn’t good or makes the sport better and more interesting.