2023 Reds Payroll

[Bourgeois Zee]

He said it after the Winker and Gray trades. Prior to that, the Reds had already cut $30M by letting Miley, Castellanos and Barnhart go. The Winker and Gray trades lowered the Reds even further to around $90M payroll.

Last year, their Opening Day payroll was $114M, according to Cot's.

You forgot to include the Castillo, Drury, Pham, and other salaries lopped off, my man. The salaries excised throughout the season equals about $20M.

They're now at around $45M for 2023.

[mth123]

Last year, their Opening Day payroll was $114M, according to Cot's.

You forgot to include the Castillo, Drury, Pham, and other salaries lopped off, my man. The salaries excised throughout the season equals about $20M.

They're now at around $45M for 2023.

Put the players in a spreadsheet and add the salaries. Opening day payroll, as is, will be about $70 Million. Votto and Moose are $43 Millon by themselves ($47 Million if you count Moose buy-out). Add the arb guys and a bunch of guys at minimum and you get to $70 Million. 20 guys at minimum is over $14 Million. Add Votto, and Moose and your close to $60 Million. Add $12 Million+ for Cessa, Senzel, Sims, Antone, Buck Farmer, Newman. I think they'll add a few pieces to that. Hopefully a couple of long term adds who fill openings, but maybe more Pham and Minor types. A second Catcher is a definite even if they do nothing else.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Put the players in a spreadsheet and add the salaries. Opening day payroll, as is, will be about $70 Million.

I think $65M, but yeah, I'd guess $75-$80M when Opening Day rolls around.

Which is robberty, btw. Pure, unadulterated greed.

[757690]

I think $65M, but yeah, I'd guess $75-$80M when Opening Day rolls around.

Which is robberty, btw. Pure, unadulterated greed.

1. The Guardians made the playoffs last season with a $68M payroll. The Rays made the playoffs with a $84M payroll.

2. The offseason just started. I am 100% confident the Reds payroll will be higher than it is now.

Btw, we agree that a payroll this low is pure greed. But I am already at the acceptance stage, you seem to still be at the anger stage.

[Bourgeois Zee]

1. The Guardians made the playoffs last season with a $68M payroll. The Rays made the playoffs with a $84M payroll.

2. The offseason just started. I am 100% confident the Reds payroll will be higher than it is now.

Btw, we agree that a payroll this low is pure greed. But I am already at the acceptance stage, you seem to still be at the anger stage.

I will never accept greed. It's sad that you do.

It doesn't matter what other teams do with their payroll.

[LeatherPants]

I will never accept greed. It's sad that you do.

It doesn't matter what other teams do with their payroll.

Also, and this can't be stressed enough, the Guardians and the Rays have shown they are way smarter than the Reds.

[hthe620110]

Sell the team, bob!!!!

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That's because they spend money on scouting and their minor league teams which the Reds lack in many ways. Plus, while I love many Reds players from the past they are not very good coaches when it comes to developing players in the system.

[757690]

Also, and this can't be stressed enough, the Guardians and the Rays have shown they are way smarter than the Reds.

They’ve been at it longer. We really don’t know how smart the Reds will be at this. However, it will be difficult to find a team, any team, that had a better trade deadline in the last decade, than the Reds did this past trade deadline.

[757690]

I will never accept greed. It's sad that you do.

It doesn't matter what other teams do with their payroll.

I have not accepted greed. I have accepted that there is nothing I can do about it. Getting angry about it on a message board accomplishes nothing, except for some hot takes that I later regret.

I am still angry that the Reds lie to fans and don’t spend what they can. But I realized that the best thing I can do for my mental health is to just accept it as another crappy part of this world, and root for the Reds to do the best they can in this situation.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I have not accepted greed. I have accepted that there is nothing I can do about it. Getting angry about it on a message board accomplishes nothing, except for some hot takes that I later regret.

I am still angry that the Reds lie to fans and don’t spend what they can. But I realized that the best thing I can do for my mental health is to just accept it as another crappy part of this world, and root for the Reds to do the best they can in this situation.

You cheer every move.

You've more than accepted it.

You're championing it.

Screw that.

[757690]

You cheer every move.

You've more than accepted it.

You're championing it.

Screw that.

You constantly accuse others of being dishonest about what you post. This is blatantly dishonest about what I post.

I criticized the Reds not picking up Miley’s option.
I criticized the Gray/Minor trades.
I criticized the Reds for including Suarez in the Winker deal.
I have consistently argued that they Reds have lied to the fans about the payroll and that they should have it at around $200M.
I blasted Phil Castellini for his offensive remarks on Opening Day last season.


All of this is on the record. Please stop being dishonest about what I post.

For the record, I think you’re a quality poster most of the time. I look forward to when you move to the “bargaining” stage. It will be easier to discuss topics with you then.

[Joeyjection19]

You constantly accuse others of being dishonest about what you post. This is blatantly dishonest about what I post.

I criticized the Reds not picking up Miley’s option.
I criticized the Gray/Minor trades.
I criticized the Reds for including Suarez in the Winker deal.
I have consistently argued that they Reds have lied to the fans about the payroll and that they should have it at around $200M.
I blasted Phil Castellini for his offensive remarks on Opening Day last season.


All of this is on the record. Please stop being dishonest about what I post.

For the record, I think you’re a quality poster most of the time. I look forward to when you move to the “bargaining” stage. It will be easier to discuss topics with you then.

We can do receipts if that's what you want. Here's your first relevant post on each of those trade threads.

On Wade Miley:

I predicted they wouldn’t pick up Miley’s option. I was hoping they would trade him for a prospect, but clearly, no one was offering them anything, so putting him on waivers saves them $1M.

He had a great season, but faltered at the end, and is about to turn 35 years old. Maybe not the best $10M bet. I don’t like it, but understand it.

The key like last year is if they use this money saved to add talent elsewhere, and they absolutely need talent in areas other than starting pitching. I know everyone assume they won’t based on last year, but I’ll wait to see what their plan is before getting too angry.

Emphasis mine. To say you're criticizing the Reds for not picking up his option is, well, a bit disingenuous. You were hoping they would pick up the option and trade him. Miley was hurt most of the year, so it's moot anyway.

On Garret/Minor trade:

I would rather have Gray and Garrett at $12M than Minor and the prospect at $8.5M. But clearly, the Reds feel they need that money. Miley was a mistake that I think they now regret.

However, I am glad they were able to get value for Garrett.

Again, emphasis mine. Value for Garrett? That's hardly criticizing the trade.

On the Gray trade:

Gray has one year of cheap team control, coming off an injury riddled season where he underperformed with a 4 ERA and FIP. He is far from a sure thing in terms of production for 2022. Getting a recent #1 draft pick for him is a very solid return, better than I would expect.

However, Petty is 18, and years away from the majors. High risk prospect. This leaves the Reds with a hole in the rotation.

The key is what the Reds will do with the $10M savings. Low odds that it is used to improve the current team. We will see.

Emphasis again is mine. You're criticizing the hole in the roster, not the trade itself. "Better than I would expect" even!

And on Winker/Suarez:

Winker has two more years of team control. He’s a one dimensional player (that one dimension is elite) and a 3 WAR player.

Geno was beyond terrible last year and the year before. He’s owed $35M. Winker is about to get expensive.

The Reds received three solid prospects, two already MLB ready.

This is exactly what the Rays and A’s do every year. This is what so many here were begging for.

I understand the punch in the gut feeling, it sucks. But get used to it if you want the Reds to be like Rays and A’s.

If it needs to be said, emphasis mine. "Geno was beyond terrible for the last two years" is not a criticism of trading him, obviously.

The problem isn't that you're wrong on the value of the individual players in each trade, 75 - you're overvaluing prospects somewhat and undervaluing known quantities. The problem, repeatedly, over and over, is that you keep saying that it depends on what the Reds do with the payroll flex and then, when they do nothing with the payroll flex, praise the next payroll cut as though there is some big, underlying plan. Also, a smaller part of the problem is that you are disingenuous about what your previous positions on these trades were.

And no, I don't have anything better to do.

[757690]

We can do receipts if that's what you want. Here's your first relevant post on each of those trade threads.

On Wade Miley:

On Gray/Minor: I would rather have Gray and Garrett at $12M than Minor and the prospect at $8.5M.




Again, emphasis mine. Value for Garrett? That's hardly criticizing the trade.

On the Gray trade:



Emphasis again is mine. You're criticizing the hole in the roster, not the trade itself. "Better than I would expect" even!

And on Winker/Suarez:



If it needs to be said, emphasis mine. "Geno was beyond terrible for the last two years" is not a criticism of trading him, obviously.

The problem isn't that you're wrong on the value of the individual players in each trade, 75 - you're overvaluing prospects somewhat and undervaluing known quantities. The problem, repeatedly, over and over, is that you keep saying that it depends on what the Reds do with the payroll flex and then, when they do nothing with the payroll flex, praise the next payroll cut as though there is some big, underlying plan. Also, a smaller part of the problem is that you are disingenuous about what your previous positions on these trades were.

And no, I don't have anything better to do.

Hey, thanks for doing the research and providing the receipts. These prove my point that I have criticized the Reds, regardless of your attempt to argue otherwise. Let's take a look at what a said again.

About Miley:

I predicted they wouldn’t pick up Miley’s option. I was hoping they would trade him for a prospect

That is what I said, I wanted them to pick up his option.

About Gray/Minor trade:

I would rather have Gray and Garrett at $12M than Minor and the prospect at $8.5M.

Again, I disagreed with what the Reds did there. Thanks for providing the post where I said that.

As for Suarez, you will have to go to many other posts where I argued that he was worth the money paid to him, but the Reds were being too cheap to pay that. I do have better things to do, so I am not going to provide the many posts where I argued this, sorry.

As for the issue of what the Reds do with each payroll cut, the Reds did spend the money saved on the Winker and Gray trades, on Solano, Minor, and Pham, so you are incorrect that they did nothing with the added payflex.

There really isn't anything else to address. Thank you for providing the posts where I criticized the Reds.

[Bob Sheed]

They’ve been at it longer. We really don’t know how smart the Reds will be at this. However, it will be difficult to find a team, any team, that had a better trade deadline in the last decade, than the Reds did this past trade deadline.

Exactly!

I'm pretty sure they won the Trade Deadline World Series last year, did they not?

Of course, ungrateful Reds fans always want to gloss over stuff like that.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Hey, thanks for doing the research and providing the receipts. These prove my point that I have criticized the Reds, regardless of your attempt to argue otherwise.

NARRATOR: No. No, they really didn't.