Mahle to the DL due to shoulder strain

[WrongVerb]

There were a lot of people on here celebrating that return when the trade was made. I was, uh, not one of them.

I kinda was, sadly.

[757690]

I’m 100% convinced the trade would have worked well for the Reds had they not forced Finnegan to pitch 172 innings as a starter in 2016, and did not rush Cody Reed.

Finnegan pitched well in 2016, but blew out his arm and never recovered, while Reed was shell shocked in 2016, and never recovered.

If they had spent just a little bit of money on a few veterans for the pitching staff, they wouldn’t have burned out both pitchers.

[Benihana]

I’m 100% convinced the trade would have worked well for the Reds had they not forced Finnegan to pitch 172 innings as a starter in 2016, and did not rush Cody Reed.

Finnegan pitched well in 2016, but blew out his arm and never recovered, while Reed was shell shocked in 2016, and never recovered.

If they had spent just a little bit of money on a few veterans for the pitching staff, they wouldn’t have burned out both pitchers.

Meh. The trade would’ve worked out well had we got Sean Manaea, like many of us were saying at the time.

[757690]

Meh. The trade would’ve worked out well had we got Sean Manaea, like many of us were saying at the time.

The Reds would have burned out Manaea just like they did Finnegan. Manaea just lucked out to be traded to a better organization.

[podgejeff_]

7 years ago Johnny Cueto was rented out for the last couple of months of his contract before he hit free agency by a front office that's been gone since 2015 and it has traumatized Reds fans ever since

[Tony Cloninger]

[RedTeamGo!]

Sigh. Even if it is a short stint on the IL you can’t trade him at the deadline now. His trade value for this deadline is shot. Hold on to him, hope he finishes strong and either go into 2023 with him or trade him during offseason.

[Tony Cloninger]

Reed wasn’t traumatized by anything other then he wasn’t good enough. He just wasn’t. Roy Halliday survived getting bombed to the point of giving up more runs then innings pitched in his 2nd season. Going all the way down to Single A to rework his whole mechanics. You are either good and also have some mental makeup to deal with failure. Or you don’t.
Brian Reith was the same.

[Kc61]

Reed wasn’t traumatized by anything other then he wasn’t good enough. He just wasn’t. Roy Halliday survived getting bombed to the point of giving up more runs then innings pitched in his 2nd season. Going all the way down to Single A to rework his whole mechanics. You are either good and also have some mental makeup to deal with failure. Or you don’t.
Brian Reith was the same.

In the days of Reed, Stephenson, Garrett, Finnegan, Romano, the Reds wanted them to be starters. Developing your own starters is very cost effective.

Had Reds converted them to the bullpen sooner, they might have done better. They were relievers.

[Benihana]

Reed wasn’t traumatized by anything other then he wasn’t good enough. He just wasn’t. Roy Halliday survived getting bombed to the point of giving up more runs then innings pitched in his 2nd season. Going all the way down to Single A to rework his whole mechanics. You are either good and also have some mental makeup to deal with failure. Or you don’t.
Brian Reith was the same.

Correct. Lucas Giolito was shellacked two of his first three big league seasons too.

You’re either good enough or you’re not. Clearly those guys weren’t.

[Benihana]

The Reds would have burned out Manaea just like they did Finnegan. Manaea just lucked out to be traded to a better organization.

No. Manaea is 6’5 245 and was always a starter, and was thought of as the better talent coming out of college, but more of a troublemaker.

Finnegan is 5’11 and was already thought by many to be a reliever at the time of the trade.

- - - Updated - - -

7 years ago Johnny Cueto was rented out for the last couple of months of his contract before he hit free agency by a front office that's been gone since 2015 and it has traumatized Reds fans ever since

Trades like the Cueto and Chapman trade will define a franchise for years to come. Just like when a team has the first overall pick in the draft. They can’t afford to miss. The talent they get back is critical. If it flops, the franchise is screwed. And that’s why the Reds have been the Reds the last 7 years.

The reason it’s relevant now is because the Reds have that opportunity again (for the first time since 7 years ago really) to trade the very best pitcher on the market for an enormous haul and if they get it right they’ll set the franchise up for years to come. If they don’t it will be the last 7 years all over again. If you can’t understand why that’s important (and not just some silly thing about a couple months of control from years ago) then I’m not sure you understand how franchise construction works.

[757690]

You are either good and also have some mental makeup to deal with failure. Or you don’t.
Brian Reith was the same.

Not to derail this thread, but this is a very commonly held belief and it’s just wrong.

I have worked with quite a few students with anxiety and other mental issues and many of them worked hard to deal with their issues, overcome them, and become productive. The human psyche is incredibly complex and cannot be reduced to “some people can deal with failure and some can’t.”

In the baseball world, there are many examples of players who have dealt with mental issues and overcome them to be productive players. John Smoltz, Zack Greinke and Joey Votto are some of the most well known examples.

[TNRED]

Reed wasn’t traumatized by anything other then he wasn’t good enough. He just wasn’t. Roy Halliday survived getting bombed to the point of giving up more runs then innings pitched in his 2nd season. Going all the way down to Single A to rework his whole mechanics. You are either good and also have some mental makeup to deal with failure. Or you don’t.
Brian Reith was the same.

It was obvious that Reed was a nut case when he had to wear those goggles while pitching that he had worn since little league.

[Tony Cloninger]

Not to derail this thread, but this is a very commonly held belief and it’s just wrong.

I have worked with quite a few students with anxiety and other mental issues and many of them worked hard to deal with their issues, overcome them, and become productive. The human psyche is incredibly complex and cannot be reduced to “some people can deal with failure and some can’t.”

In the baseball world, there are many examples of players who have dealt with mental issues and overcome them to be productive players. John Smoltz, Zack Greinke and Joey Votto are some of the most well known examples.

Well isn’t that my point. They could not overcome the mental side of the game. Blaming the Reds for ruining Reed or Reith is deflecting. I remember Smoltz and his mental block that took him to a hypnotist to help the block. The Braves brought up him. Glavine. Avery. Smith. They just threw them out to either do it or fail. Maddux was brought up with the Cubs and had an ERA over 4 or 5 his first year. There are flakes and head cases who had to deal with their own mental demons. Mark Lemengello. Roger Moret. Back when people in sports had less tolerance of mental health issues.

I was not implying Reith or Reed had mental issues. They just could not deal with any type of failure or pressure no matter how they would have been handled. They also lacked the stuff to compensate for their lack of confidence to begin with.

[CySeymour]

It was obvious that Reed was a nut case when he had to wear those goggles while pitching that he had worn since little league.

Did you think the same thing about Chris Sabo when he was hitting two home runs in a World Series game wearing them?