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Thread: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

  1. #181
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin traded to Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Chasing 99 losses instead of 100 is the new Money Ball.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Chasing 99 losses instead of 100 is the new Money Ball.
    It’s a number.

    This game is defined by numbers and many of them are adjusting because the game changes. Triples are down, steals, sac bunts… others are up, walks, HRs, teams that lose 100 games.

    In the past the 100 loss stigma was a “Woe is me” vibe, it was St Louis Browns, A Connie Mack Garage Sale, The Baker Bowl and the Boston Bees.

    Now it’s a number, like Ford hitting $5.00 in 2008.

    New world, buckle up and adjust

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  4. #182
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin traded to Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    It’s a number.

    This game is defined by numbers and many of them are adjusting because the game changes. Triples are down, steals, sac bunts… others are up, walks, HRs, teams that lose 100 games.

    In the past the 100 loss stigma was a “Woe is me” vibe, it was St Louis Browns, A Connie Mack Garage Sale, The Baker Bowl and the Boston Bees.

    Now it’s a number, like Ford hitting $5.00 in 2008.

    New world, buckle up and adjust
    I don't know. Keeping your fan base engaged is part of the game. Going full cynical and then losing 100 games is one hell of a pill for fans to swallow. I'm also not too high on the Reds being a team that can successfully do a full strip down and rebuild. I liked their odds better of being like the Brewers - achieve a level of competence, maintain it and seek to build on it.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Naquin. No particular problem with the deal, even if the kids never amount to anything. Yet the big picture of where the Reds are headed is not pretty. This could be the deepest, longest hole any of us have ever seen.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  5. #183
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin traded to Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I don't know. Keeping your fan base engaged is part of the game. Going full cynical and then losing 100 games is one hell of a pill for fans to swallow. I'm also not too high on the Reds being a team that can successfully do a full strip down and rebuild. I liked their odds better of being like the Brewers - achieve a level of competence, maintain it and seek to build on it.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Naquin. No particular problem with the deal, even if the kids never amount to anything. Yet the big picture of where the Reds are headed is not pretty. This could be the deepest, longest hole any of us have ever seen.
    Any other year maybe, but Phil Castellini already dragged the family dog into the living room and shot him during Christmas dinner for eyeballing the turkey

    If they lose 100 games it's a yoke he'll wear in every country club dining room until he dies.

    I'm all in on that

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  7. #184
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The odds of them being productive MLB players is much higher than 1%, but it still is quite low, as it is with all prospects. Which is why it is essential for teams like the Reds to acquire as many prospects as possible. The more prospects you have, the more that will become productive MLB players.

    But even that isn’t the point of trades like this. As these two prospects develop, when the Reds are close to competing, they can be traded for actual productive MLB players like Naquin. If they develop well, they should yield a player even better than Naquin.

    Adding talent should be the primary focus of every MLB team. It doesn’t matter at what level, more talent everywhere eventually leads to more wins.
    I guess we are going to have to disagree somewhat.
    Acquiring talent is good, I agree.
    Acquiring a lot of marginal guys that are replacement level players at best really doesn't move the needle.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #185
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Both prospects are within the top 50 Red prospects already, according to Fangraphs.

    Right now, they have better than 50/50 odds to make the majors. There are an absolute metric ton of possibilities beyond that, of course-- from utility guy to first division starter to scrub and everything in-between. It depends largely on what you might consider significant contributions and your willingness to gamble on young prospects.
    Ok, but "making the majors" doesn't really mean anything.
    It's an easy metric to figure out, but Pete Rose Jr made the majors, as well as hundreds if not thousands of other forgetable players that really contributed nothing.
    Being in the top 50 of a team's prospect really isn't that impressive.
    If we look back through a team's top 15 list.. maybe 3-4 of those guys end up as good players if the team is lucky. Granted a few more may end up as useful bench pieces Sure , there are exceptions.
    The odds of either of those guys becoming as good as lets say Sims or Naquin is extremely low. (And Sims is not that good)
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  10. #186
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Ok, but "making the majors" doesn't really mean anything.
    It's an easy metric to figure out, but Pete Rose Jr made the majors, as well as hundreds if not thousands of other forgetable players that really contributed nothing.
    Being in the top 50 of a team's prospect really isn't that impressive.
    If we look back through a team's top 15 list.. maybe 3-4 of those guys end up as good players if the team is lucky. Granted a few more may end up as useful bench pieces Sure , there are exceptions.
    The odds of either of those guys becoming as good as lets say Sims or Naquin is extremely low. (And Sims is not that good)
    I guess the point is that every player, from the duds who start out like a flame and are gone in three years, to the guys who later become the Joey Votto’s and the Luis Castillo’s, all of them start out as nobodies who are a million miles away from any meaningful contributions to the major leagues. A few make it, but the overwhelming majority do not. Juan Soto is a lottery ticket who made it. Juan Duran is a lottery ticket who did not. But every player starts out as a lottery ticket. No doubt that Rodriquez and Acuna are nothing more than lotto tickets. But EDLC was a lottery ticket a couple years ago. Every prospect is a lottery ticket, until they aren’t. But it’s like the old saying, “You’ll never win the lottery if you never buy a ticket.” Still have no clue if EDLC is going to be a decent major league player or just another fizzled overhyped minor league player, but time will tell.

    Tyler Naquin was a nice pickup when the Reds brought him in. They flipped him for a couple lottery tickets. There will be probably twenty OF like Naquin on the FA market this winter, including Naquin. And the Reds have other meh players who can, and should be flipped for lottery tickets. Once upon a time, Dan Straily was flipped for a couple lottery tickets, and one of them paid off.

    Is the remainder of the 2022 season for the Reds going to be hard to watch? Absolutely yes. But I never watched games to see Tyler Naquin, or Tommy Pham, or any of the role players anyway. Honestly, I never even heard of Brandon Drury or Donovan Solano before this year. So if those players get flipped for more lottery tickets, that’s fine by me. If just one of those lottery tickets turns into another Luis Castillo, it will be worth it. And the Reds can sign more no names for next season and flip them for more lottery tickets. Meanwhile, I will enjoy watching the Reds lottery tickets play on my MiLB TV package. Who knows, there just may be a couple future major league starters among all those lottery tickets.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

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  12. #187
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    I just want to hear the Reds say," We are not going to loose anymore" oh right that lie was already said

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  14. #188
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    I just want to hear the Reds say," We are not going to loose anymore" oh right that lie was already said
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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  16. #189
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin traded to Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Any other year maybe, but Phil Castellini already dragged the family dog into the living room and shot him during Christmas dinner for eyeballing the turkey

    If they lose 100 games it's a yoke he'll wear in every country club dining room until he dies.

    I'm all in on that
    Yeah, I’m confused by anyone rooting against this organization losing 100 games in this particular moment lol

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  18. #190
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    I really appreciate the job Tyler Naquin did for the Reds over the last two years, and I suspect he appreciates the opportunity the Reds gave him. But I can't imagine the difference between Tyler Naquin and T.J. Friedl in the outfield is going to be very meaningful for the remainder of the season (or even Jake Fraley, though, if you've been following what they've done at L'ville, Friedl deserves the call first0. The return seems just about right to me, and I'm glad they have apparently gone for more upside even at a longer distance from the majors than for a more known quantity closer to readiness (since two months of Naquin is not going to get you a lot there).

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  20. #191
    Member Tadasimha's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    I just want to hear the Reds say," We are not going to loose anymore" oh right that lie was already said
    Well, they're not loose with their money, that's for sure.
    If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve!

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  22. #192
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    LanceMcAlister
    @LanceMcAlister
    ·
    10m
    Jose Acuna
    @daytonatortugas

    tonight:
    5 IN
    4 H
    1 R
    0 ER
    0 BB
    6 K
    76 pitches/49 strikes
    19-year old RH was part of Tyler Naquin deal.
    #Reds
    Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2

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  24. #193
    Playoff Veteran sdwagers's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    LanceMcAlister
    @LanceMcAlister
    ·
    10m
    Jose Acuna
    @daytonatortugas

    tonight:
    5 IN
    4 H
    1 R
    0 ER
    0 BB
    6 K
    76 pitches/49 strikes
    19-year old RH was part of Tyler Naquin deal.
    #Reds

    not shabby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    sdwagers for Reds GM!

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  26. #194
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Naquin, Diehl traded to the Mets

    Acuna since the trade:

    GS 2
    IP 9
    H 4
    R 1
    ER 0
    ERA 0.00
    BB 0
    HBP 1
    K 10
    BF 31

    Acuna Matata
    Last edited by corkedbat; 08-08-2022 at 04:44 AM.

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