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Thread: This Was a Teardown

  1. #31
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    If they spent what they could afford to spend next season—150 million or so—they could. But this teardown isn’t about that. It’s about several extremely cheap years. And probably a sale of the team when they reach the point where financial choices have to be made.
    130 going in to this year. Really poorly constructed roster.
    Still handcuffed with 3 terrible contracts, but they are getting close. 2024 expectations on ownership should be high for bringing in quality players.


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  3. #32
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    I feel better about things now than I did when the Reds were 4-24 to start the season.

    Now if the team can sift through and identify the minor league SSs who are keepers from the SSs who can be moved elsewhere for some other needs (either at the MLB or minor league levels), I think the big league product can at least in theory be more interesting sooner rather than later.

    I also take solace in the fact that for as crappy as everything has been this season, Pittsburgh is still worse and the Cubs are a hiccup away from looking up at the Reds as well.

  4. #33
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    In 5 years I will revisit this thread if I haven’t been banned. If they’re flying a pennant or hoisting a WS trophy in 5 years, I will get Nick Krall’s face tatted on my shoulder. You can hold me to that.

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  6. #34
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Anyone who says this wasnt a tear down needs their posting abilities taken away. I just don't buy into the narrative that this team cant be competitive for another 3-5 years talk. Not saying its world series or bust, but If this team isn't producing meaningful games in August or September 2024 I would be disappointed. Unless the Castellinis continue slashing payroll and just pocket fans money there is no reason at all that this team cant fill out a decent roster of the next two years between players progressing through the minors and free agency.

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  8. #35
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    130 going in to this year. Really poorly constructed roster.
    Still handcuffed with 3 terrible contracts, but they are getting close. 2024 expectations on ownership should be high for bringing in quality players.


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    Votto isn’t a terrible contract. Moose is. What’s the third? Junior? If you mean Minor, he’s gone after this year. I was referring to ‘23 going forward.

    And are you one of the ones declaring this “not a teardown?” I believe they have about 50 million accounted for for next season.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 08-02-2022 at 07:55 PM.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  9. #36
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Votto isn’t a terrible contract. Moose is. What’s the third? Junior?

    And are you one of the ones declaring this “not a teardown?” I believe they have about 50 million accounted for for next season.
    Many are under the impression Mike Minor is under contract next season because his option shows up on contract websites for 2023. $50MM + arbitration which shouldnt be too bad on this rosters for 2023. Payroll this year was roughly $110MM so no reason the Reds cant be active this offseason. I'm fine with a teardown, but ownership gets zero excuses for me after this year for not building it back up.

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  11. #37
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Votto’s contract is horrible for the Reds today. It wasn’t when it was signed….or for many years. I don’t think any fan today would, if given $25M, think spending it on a 38 year old for 1 year that has hit .250 and averaged 50 ribbie’s a year for the last 5 would either, just too many needs out there.


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  13. #38
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Votto’s contract is horrible for the Reds today. It wasn’t when it was signed….or for many years. I don’t think any fan today would, if given $25M, think spending it on a 38 year old for 1 year that has hit .250 and averaged 50 ribbie’s a year for the last 5 would either, just too many needs out there.


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    I think it’s a solid bet that he has the first or second highest OBP on this team next season.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

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  15. #39
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    I've never had a problem with the Votto contract, I think he was full value for most of it. The man is a future hof and has an mvp. There are numerous contracts that are worse over the last couple years for various reasons like the meseraco contract or moose or minor.

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  17. #40
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Votto isn’t a terrible contract. Moose is. What’s the third? Junior? If you mean Minor, he’s gone after this year. I was referring to ‘23 going forward.

    And are you one of the ones declaring this “not a teardown?” I believe they have about 50 million accounted for for next season.
    And yes, I think it’s a tear down….because it clearly is one. It appears, however, they got some actual talent back on this one, which is nice.


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  18. #41
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Votto’s contract is horrible for the Reds today. It wasn’t when it was signed….or for many years. I don’t think any fan today would, if given $25M, think spending it on a 38 year old for 1 year that has hit .250 and averaged 50 ribbie’s a year for the last 5 would either, just too many needs out there.


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    Fans need to understand that this is how long term contracts work. Reds have plenty of money they aren’t going to spend. None of this is Votto’s fault.

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  20. #42
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Fans need to understand that this is how long term contracts work. Reds have plenty of money they aren’t going to spend. None of this is Votto’s fault.
    Plus the end of big deals are typically not an issue. In theory the reds could sign anyone they wanted today and backload the deal. The last year or two of a big contract can be worked around. The votto contract at this point is just an excuse. It was actually more of an issue 5 years ago than it is today.

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  22. #43
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Fans need to understand that this is how long term contracts work. Reds have plenty of money they aren’t going to spend. None of this is Votto’s fault.
    Certainly not Votto’s. Nor the Reds. A reward for past performance, very well deserved. Both can be true.


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  23. #44
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Not a teardown. Reds just needed to move Castillo, Mahle, Drury, and Pham to reallocate their salaries to afford Austin Romine.
    “The guys we've had for the most part have been serviceable at this level.”

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  25. #45
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    Re: This Was a Teardown

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    I can’t fathom why anyone would dispute that assertion.

    They did gain a lot of young talent, most 2-3 years away from being able to contribute.

    Which means we’re in for 2-3 more miserable seasons unless we spend on some actual quality. I don’t think they will, which leaves them with a very narrow window.
    I don't think the next 2-3 seasons need to be miserable, if they don't want them to be. It'll take the young starters continuing to progress, a couple of the MiLB guys to contribute ahead of schedule, and a few smart veteran additions (a la a Scott Rolen type trade).

    With expanded playoffs and a relatively weak division, I think this can be a quicker process than some think.
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

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