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Thread: 2023 Reds

  1. #76
    Member OldFashionedRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    I really think Moustakas is gone after this year, like what the Cubs did to Heyward. There is absolutely no reason to think he could contribute anything of value next year. Indeed, since he's been a negative WAR player for two full seasons now, his departure is addition by subtraction.
    When Votto is finally off the team, I think *he* will miss Cincinnati and playing for the Reds. I do not get that feeling with Moose. It's just a job for him.
    We didn't do anything fancy. We just played blue-collar baseball.

    ~ Lou Piniella


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  3. #77
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Mostly agree with who matters except I’d include India on the lock list, certainly over Barrero.
    I think India is a fine player, but he's not any kind of star. He'll be arbitration eligible after 2023 and the reds just don't keep guys like that around. Add in that they have a ton of young middle infield types who project to play india's position and I just can't see the reds hanging on to him and paying him when they could be playing a kid.

    It's pretty much the same boat that Farmer is going to fall into, guys like that are valuable, till they aren't. Neither of those guys is going to be a major cog in any good future red's team. There just isn't any compelling reason to pay them. If they can get a return on them, then they should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I would agree with giving Barrero the job, but if we get to the summer solstice and he still can’t OPS .700, I wouldn’t plan on him being the everyday SS much longer. I’d expect him to be replaced by Elly (if he can stick) or McLain by August, if not sooner.
    We are in entire agreement here. It's Barrero's job, but if he's doesn't perform, he doesn't get to keep the slot.

    Just my opinion, LED is a better SS than McLain, but then I don't get a vote.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  4. #78
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I think India is a fine player, but he's not any kind of star. He'll be arbitration eligible after 2023 and the reds just don't keep guys like that around. Add in that they have a ton of young middle infield types who project to play india's position and I just can't see the reds hanging on to him and paying him when they could be playing a kid.

    It's pretty much the same boat that Farmer is going to fall into, guys like that are valuable, till they aren't. Neither of those guys is going to be a major cog in any good future red's team. There just isn't any compelling reason to pay them. If they can get a return on them, then they should.

    .
    If they trade India for prospects, and Farmer for prospects, at some point all they have is prospects. And Stephenson, I guess, if he stays healthy. You know, with many prospects, they too are valuable until they aren’t.

    Unless you’re assuming spending on veterans in the off-seasons. But unless they’re stars, I’d guess that’s not part of the plan. And Reds may not be able to sign the top stars.

    Maybe I’m misconstruing what you’re saying, but I don’t think a build almost totally with prospects is going to work. India may not be a star, but he’s a good player and experience should help that.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-16-2022 at 06:14 PM.

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    Benihana (08-16-2022)

  6. #79
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If they trade India for prospects, and Farmer for prospects, at some point all they have is prospects. And Stephenson, I guess, if he stays healthy. You know, with many prospects, they too are valuable until they arenít.

    Unless youíre assuming spending on veterans in the off-seasons. But unless theyíre stars, Iíd guess thatís not part of the plan. And Reds may not be able to sign the top stars.

    Maybe Iím misconstruing what youíre saying, but I donít think a build almost totally with prospects is going to work. India may not be a star, but heís a good player and experience should help that.
    This. India and Stephenson (and Benintendi if they sign him) will give the kids a veteran presence that is needed, while giving the fans some slight semblance of continuity. I think itís important that India and Stephenson stick as key components to the core.

    They have proven they can be above average first division starters. They wonít get paid like stars for the next few years unless they truly become stars- in which case, itís not a problem.
    Last edited by Benihana; 08-16-2022 at 07:32 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #80
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Bailing on a ROY in his injury-riddled year two is the most Redszone thing I've read in a while.

    That plus miserable game thread guy saying Votto needs to be shot like an old dog.

    Must be August.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  9. #81
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Where is this stuff coming from that the Reds bail on starters who are arbitration eligible? I'm not seeing that. India is a solid starter on this team. He's not going anywhere for a long while

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    HokieRed (08-17-2022),Rowsdower (08-18-2022)

  11. #82
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    Bailing on a ROY in his injury-riddled year two is the most Redszone thing I've read in a while.
    Baseball's a game of failure, so baseball fans are a curmudgeonly, unhappy bunch. I think that the best (and most accurate) part of Bernard Malamud's The Natural is the talk that he captures from the fans in the stands.

    Still, 100-loss-type years will lead to some especially hot takes. I'd rank them:

    Agree that the India takes are especially hot. India has health issues and potentially positional challenges (in light of the Reds' rising prospects), but it's hard not to see Stephenson/India as the face of the 2023-24 Reds, all at below "market" comp.

    That said, the hottest take I've seen this month or hear is that the Reds cheaped out by not paying $7.5 million for a backup catcher with a sub-.600 OPS. Note, this was argued with the benefit of full hindsight.

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    Revering4Blue (08-17-2022)

  13. #83
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Reds need to claim Steele Walker.

    He's back on waivers for the 2nd time this month. Former premium prospect out of the Big-12, with 2 remaining option years after this season.

    He can play anywhere in the OF and only strikes out 18% of his PA's. Give him a month in GABP see if his power is late blooming.

    If not, just one more scrub to get rid of later.

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  15. #84
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Reds need to claim Steele Walker.

    He's back on waivers for the 2nd time this month. Former premium prospect out of the Big-12, with 2 remaining option years after this season.

    He can play anywhere in the OF and only strikes out 18% of his PA's. Give him a month in GABP see if his power is late blooming.

    If not, just one more scrub to get rid of later.
    This was 2 months ago -->


  16. #85
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    I believe Lodolo's looking pretty good to hold down a top-3 spot in the rotation and Ashcraft would seem to be what he is (fine for the 4/5 slot. I think they'll need to bring in someone from the outside to vie for a MOR berth and then either a outside journeyman-type or one of the young'uns for the fifth spot.

    That leaves Greene. My question mark is not will he be in the rotation, but where? Can Williams or someone else in the organization work with him over the offseason to get more movement on his heater (Instructional League?) or is it what it is?

  17. #86
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    My 2023 Opening Day prediction hinges on Matt McLain tearing up AA the rest of this season and Spring Training, forcing his way onto the roster like India did in 2021. Then they decide to move India back to 3B. This also assumes health and a few realistic FA acquisitions.

    1B - Votto
    2B - McLain
    SS - Barrero
    3B - India
    LF - FA signing
    CF - Senzel
    RF - Fraley
    C - Stephenson

    BN - Farmer
    BN - Steer
    BN - FA backup C signing
    BN - Moustakas
    BN - In-house 4th OF option (Friedl, Aquino, Shrock, etc.)

    SP - Greene
    SP - Lododo
    SP - Ashcraft
    SP - MOR FA signing
    SP - Some in-house option (Williamson, Dunn, Stoudt, etc.)

    RP - Diaz
    RP - Sims
    RP - Antone
    RP - SanMartin
    RP - Kuhnel
    RP - FA RHP signing
    RP - FA LHP signing
    RP - Some in-house option (Moreta, Santillan, Garcia, etc.)

    Waiting in the wings at Louisville are position guys like de la Cruz, Encarnacion-Strand, McGarry, Johnson, Siani, Cerda, and Lopez. Then they'll need to make some smart minor league FA signings to boost the high minors pitching depth because there's not much there. Maybe Phillips and Abbott but both are scuffling in Chattanooga.
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  18. #87
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Waiting in the wings at Louisville are position guys like de la Cruz, Encarnacion-Strand, McGarry, Johnson, Siani, Cerda, and Lopez. Then they'll need to make some smart minor league FA signings to boost the high minors pitching depth because there's not much there. Maybe Phillips and Abbott but both are scuffling in Chattanooga.
    Williamson likely makes the Reds out of Spring Training. Dunn too, either as a SP or a relief arm.

    That leaves Stoudt as AAA insurance.

    Another option (beyond Abbott and Phillips) is Joe Boyle. He tore up High A Dayton this year and in one start so far in AA, he acquitted himself nicely. He pitches unlike nearly everyone, in that he's nearly impossible to hit but walks everyone and his mom. As a result, his WHiP is still low, but completely backwards. He's a Tanner Rainey type but with (believe it or not) better stuff and a slightly worse idea of where it's going. Oh, and he's capable of throwing that filthy stuff for 100 pitches or more.

    Boyle could well be a fast riser, if only to see if his brand of pitching can actually work.

    Either way, a AAA top three of Abbott, Phillips, and Boyle is pretty solid, especially with the quartet ahead of them and the fact that Chase Petty, Christian Roa, and Bryce Bonnin are slightly behind.

  19. #88
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    My 2023 Opening Day prediction hinges on Matt McLain tearing up AA the rest of this season and Spring Training, forcing his way onto the roster like India did in 2021. Then they decide to move India back to 3B. This also assumes health and a few realistic FA acquisitions.

    1B - Votto
    2B - McLain
    SS - Barrero
    3B - India
    LF - FA signing
    CF - Senzel
    RF - Fraley
    C - Stephenson

    BN - Farmer
    BN - Steer
    BN - FA backup C signing
    BN - Moustakas
    BN - In-house 4th OF option (Friedl, Aquino, Shrock, etc.)

    SP - Greene
    SP - Lododo
    SP - Ashcraft
    SP - MOR FA signing
    SP - Some in-house option (Williamson, Dunn, Stoudt, etc.)

    RP - Diaz
    RP - Sims
    RP - Antone
    RP - SanMartin
    RP - Kuhnel
    RP - FA RHP signing
    RP - FA LHP signing
    RP - Some in-house option (Moreta, Santillan, Garcia, etc.)

    Waiting in the wings at Louisville are position guys like de la Cruz, Encarnacion-Strand, McGarry, Johnson, Siani, Cerda, and Lopez. Then they'll need to make some smart minor league FA signings to boost the high minors pitching depth because there's not much there. Maybe Phillips and Abbott but both are scuffling in Chattanooga.
    This is what I foresee as well, though I think Hoffman will be in there (he is a low-end but MLB-quality reliever, so I don't see any reason to write him off) and maybe one less bench spot in favor of a pitcher.

    I would really like to see two free agent starters to help protect the younger arms, but we shall see.

  20. #89
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    Bailing on a ROY in his injury-riddled year two is the most Redszone thing I've read in a while.

    That plus miserable game thread guy saying Votto needs to be shot like an old dog.

    Must be August.
    We don't have to speculate if India can be a useful piece on a decent-to-good team. We know for sure, it's already happened, like just last year. He can be again.

    If you're expecting him to take a huge jump to be a star, I am skeptical of that.

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  22. #90
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Reds

    Just the idea of watching Mousse play again in '23 gives me the trots.

    No way. He has to go.
    President and CEO of The Kyle Farmer AND Albert Almora Fan Clubz. For membership details, inquire within.


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