"He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo
I think India is a fine player, but he's not any kind of star. He'll be arbitration eligible after 2023 and the reds just don't keep guys like that around. Add in that they have a ton of young middle infield types who project to play india's position and I just can't see the reds hanging on to him and paying him when they could be playing a kid.
It's pretty much the same boat that Farmer is going to fall into, guys like that are valuable, till they aren't. Neither of those guys is going to be a major cog in any good future red's team. There just isn't any compelling reason to pay them. If they can get a return on them, then they should.
We are in entire agreement here. It's Barrero's job, but if he's doesn't perform, he doesn't get to keep the slot.
Just my opinion, LED is a better SS than McLain, but then I don't get a vote.
"Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010
If they trade India for prospects, and Farmer for prospects, at some point all they have is prospects. And Stephenson, I guess, if he stays healthy. You know, with many prospects, they too are valuable until they aren’t.
Unless you’re assuming spending on veterans in the off-seasons. But unless they’re stars, I’d guess that’s not part of the plan. And Reds may not be able to sign the top stars.
Maybe I’m misconstruing what you’re saying, but I don’t think a build almost totally with prospects is going to work. India may not be a star, but he’s a good player and experience should help that.
Last edited by Kc61; 08-16-2022 at 06:14 PM.
Benihana (08-16-2022)
This. India and Stephenson (and Benintendi if they sign him) will give the kids a veteran presence that is needed, while giving the fans some slight semblance of continuity. I think it’s important that India and Stephenson stick as key components to the core.
They have proven they can be above average first division starters. They won’t get paid like stars for the next few years unless they truly become stars- in which case, it’s not a problem.
Last edited by Benihana; 08-16-2022 at 07:32 PM.
Go BLUE!!!
Bailing on a ROY in his injury-riddled year two is the most Redszone thing I've read in a while.
That plus miserable game thread guy saying Votto needs to be shot like an old dog.
Must be August.
"I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski
Where is this stuff coming from that the Reds bail on starters who are arbitration eligible? I'm not seeing that. India is a solid starter on this team. He's not going anywhere for a long while
Baseball's a game of failure, so baseball fans are a curmudgeonly, unhappy bunch. I think that the best (and most accurate) part of Bernard Malamud's The Natural is the talk that he captures from the fans in the stands.
Still, 100-loss-type years will lead to some especially hot takes. I'd rank them:
Agree that the India takes are especially hot. India has health issues and potentially positional challenges (in light of the Reds' rising prospects), but it's hard not to see Stephenson/India as the face of the 2023-24 Reds, all at below "market" comp.
That said, the hottest take I've seen this month or hear is that the Reds cheaped out by not paying $7.5 million for a backup catcher with a sub-.600 OPS. Note, this was argued with the benefit of full hindsight.
Revering4Blue (08-17-2022)
Reds need to claim Steele Walker.
He's back on waivers for the 2nd time this month. Former premium prospect out of the Big-12, with 2 remaining option years after this season.
He can play anywhere in the OF and only strikes out 18% of his PA's. Give him a month in GABP see if his power is late blooming.
If not, just one more scrub to get rid of later.
Benihana (08-18-2022),mth123 (08-17-2022),Old school 1983 (08-18-2022),REDREAD (08-18-2022)
I believe Lodolo's looking pretty good to hold down a top-3 spot in the rotation and Ashcraft would seem to be what he is (fine for the 4/5 slot. I think they'll need to bring in someone from the outside to vie for a MOR berth and then either a outside journeyman-type or one of the young'uns for the fifth spot.
That leaves Greene. My question mark is not will he be in the rotation, but where? Can Williams or someone else in the organization work with him over the offseason to get more movement on his heater (Instructional League?) or is it what it is?
My 2023 Opening Day prediction hinges on Matt McLain tearing up AA the rest of this season and Spring Training, forcing his way onto the roster like India did in 2021. Then they decide to move India back to 3B. This also assumes health and a few realistic FA acquisitions.
1B - Votto
2B - McLain
SS - Barrero
3B - India
LF - FA signing
CF - Senzel
RF - Fraley
C - Stephenson
BN - Farmer
BN - Steer
BN - FA backup C signing
BN - Moustakas
BN - In-house 4th OF option (Friedl, Aquino, Shrock, etc.)
SP - Greene
SP - Lododo
SP - Ashcraft
SP - MOR FA signing
SP - Some in-house option (Williamson, Dunn, Stoudt, etc.)
RP - Diaz
RP - Sims
RP - Antone
RP - SanMartin
RP - Kuhnel
RP - FA RHP signing
RP - FA LHP signing
RP - Some in-house option (Moreta, Santillan, Garcia, etc.)
Waiting in the wings at Louisville are position guys like de la Cruz, Encarnacion-Strand, McGarry, Johnson, Siani, Cerda, and Lopez. Then they'll need to make some smart minor league FA signings to boost the high minors pitching depth because there's not much there. Maybe Phillips and Abbott but both are scuffling in Chattanooga.
"In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
-Walt Whitman
Williamson likely makes the Reds out of Spring Training. Dunn too, either as a SP or a relief arm.
That leaves Stoudt as AAA insurance.
Another option (beyond Abbott and Phillips) is Joe Boyle. He tore up High A Dayton this year and in one start so far in AA, he acquitted himself nicely. He pitches unlike nearly everyone, in that he's nearly impossible to hit but walks everyone and his mom. As a result, his WHiP is still low, but completely backwards. He's a Tanner Rainey type but with (believe it or not) better stuff and a slightly worse idea of where it's going. Oh, and he's capable of throwing that filthy stuff for 100 pitches or more.
Boyle could well be a fast riser, if only to see if his brand of pitching can actually work.
Either way, a AAA top three of Abbott, Phillips, and Boyle is pretty solid, especially with the quartet ahead of them and the fact that Chase Petty, Christian Roa, and Bryce Bonnin are slightly behind.
This is what I foresee as well, though I think Hoffman will be in there (he is a low-end but MLB-quality reliever, so I don't see any reason to write him off) and maybe one less bench spot in favor of a pitcher.
I would really like to see two free agent starters to help protect the younger arms, but we shall see.
Old school 1983 (08-18-2022)
Just the idea of watching Mousse play again in '23 gives me the trots.
No way. He has to go.
“The crows seem to be calling my name,” thought Caw.
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