So what happens now?

[mth123]

The Reds need to tell Votto that it's time for him to ride the bench. He's holding up progress at this point.

How so? Who is he blocking? They don't have anyone pushing for PT. The DH spot is wide open as is 3B and both OF corners. Diminished Votto is still the best bat on the roster at this point.

[redsfan9988]

I don’t think the Reds will add what appear to be “impact players,” in the winter of 2023. Low-key signings like Pham, Drury, Strickland, Solano, etc will rule the day. If we’re randomly competitive for some reason - we’ll have some vets to lead the way. In the overwhelmingly likely event that we’re bad - flip the new vets for whatever (hey, we got a nice piece for Drury).

In 2024, the trio of young SPs will be entering their 3rd years and should be expected to take a step forward towards entering their primes. Guys like McClain, EDLC, and maybe Marte should be ready to contribute, along with India and Stephenson. Moose and Votto will be off the books and the financial commitments will be minimal (arb for India, Stephenson). If expect the Reds to add a mid-tier veteran SP and several bullpen arms. An OF bat is possible as well. The goal should be respectability in 2024 (see 2022 Orioles) and a real window from 2025-2028.

[foster15]

How so? Who is he blocking? They don't have anyone pushing for PT. The DH spot is wide open as is 3B and both OF corners. Diminished Votto is still the best bat on the roster at this point.

Nobody's going to be pushing for Joey Votto's job until the Reds decide they are ready for someone to push for his job. Nobody pushed for Dave Concepcion's job until the Reds decided it was time. But we know the Reds aren't going to make that decision based on Votto's production nor anyone else's production. They are going to make that decision when Votto's salary falls off the books.

[mth123]

Nobody's going to be pushing for Joey Votto's job until the Reds decide they are ready for someone to push for his job. Nobody pushed for Dave Concepcion's job until the Reds decided it was time. But we know the Reds aren't going to make that decision based on Votto's production nor anyone else's production. They are going to make that decision when Votto's salary falls off the books.

Sure, which is after next season, but next season, they don't have a better option. So, I repeat my question, who is he blocking? Are we chomping at the bit for more Colin Moran?

[foster15]

Sure, which is after next season, but next season, they don't have a better option. So, I repeat my question, who is he blocking? Are we chomping at the bit for more Colin Moran?

He's blocking tryouts. After this teardown, Votto adds no value toward winning and a team that is in the Reds shoes as far as current winning potential vs future winning potential would be using his spot for auditions. A team that doesn't always look at the bottom line first that is.

He's not just blocking players in the Reds system, he's also blocking players that might be candidates through trades that the Reds ignore because they have Votto who they want to play the string out with, for financial reasons.

Again, Votto isn't blocking anybody until the Reds decide that it's time to replace him. If the Reds had decided to get a jump on that a year or two ago with the thought that the player would be ready to take over in 2024, then he would be blocking development and evaluation. But the Reds decided to wait until he's gone to bring in anybody it looks like.

[mth123]

He's blocking tryouts. After this teardown, Votto adds no value toward winning and a team that is in the Reds shoes as far as current winning potential vs future winning potential would be using his spot for auditions. A team that doesn't always look at the bottom line first that is.

He's not just blocking players in the Reds system, he's also blocking players that might be candidates through trades that the Reds ignore because they have Votto who they want to play the string out with, for financial reasons.

Again, Votto isn't blocking anybody until the Reds decide that it's time to replace him. If the Reds had decided to get a jump on that a year or two ago with the thought that the player would be ready to take over in 2024, then he would be blocking development and evaluation. But the Reds decided to wait until he's gone to bring in anybody it looks like.

Votto, India and Stephenson are basically the only positions settled going into next year. The Reds have ample opportunity to acquire anyone and plug them into the line-up. They'll be lucky to fill 2 of those openings adequately. They would need to fill 5 before Votto would be blocking anyone.

On the list of Reds problems, Votto's 2023 status ranks no higher than about 40th or so.

[TexasRedsFan]

One thing's for certain. This past week's activity has ensured that Spring Training 2023 will be VERY interesting.

[redsfan9988]

I think the moral to the story is this:

The Reds are 39-39 in their last 78 games. There are plenty of winnable series ahead of them in the 2nd half. Is it possible that having Winker, Miley, Barnhart, and Gray could have blunted the awful start and allowed this team to compete in 2022? Sure. But I think the FO saw last year as a ceiling for this club. Winker, Castellanos, Miley, and Mahle had career years. Votto had a resurgence out of nowhere. The bullpen was bad - and they took steps at the deadline to address that weakness… and still fell short. So why run it back and hope to (at best) sneak in to an expanded WC field at 84-78? Learn the lesson of 2013 and 2014 and get value for your vets while the sun is still shining. It’s ZERO fun from a fan’s perspective. But I’ll trade fringy competitiveness in 2022 and 2023 for the potential of a real window in 2025-2030.

[Kc61]

The next big step for Reds will be a purge of players from the 40 man roster. There are currently 47 guys either on the forty man roster or 60 day IL. I could see that number cut almost by half.

There are all kinds of extra relievers and catchers on that list who will be let go. There are a few free agents who won’t be re-signed.

And I see a few more minor trades upcoming, maybe Farmer for example, of guys who just may not fit as the team gets younger. Then Reds, as always, will add people to the forty man roster from the system and probably make a few acquisitions as we’ve been discussing

[Old school 1983]

The next big step for Reds will be a purge of players from the 40 man roster. There are currently 47 guys either on the forty man roster or 60 day IL. I could see that number cut almost by half.

There are all kinds of extra relievers and catchers on that list who will be let go. There are a few free agents who won’t be re-signed.

And I see a few more minor trades upcoming, maybe Farmer for example, of guys who just may not fit as the team gets younger. Then Reds, as always, will add people to the forty man roster from the system and probably make a few acquisitions as we’ve been discussing

Flipping Farmer for some relief help in the off-season would be huge. Same with Senzel.

[InsaneinthBrame]

Flipping Farmer for some relief help in the off-season would be huge. Same with Senzel.

I doubt Farmer is going anywhere. I expect him to be next years opening day shortstop. I know people do what to here that or that Senzel will be the starting CF Fraley and Aquino will be a corner platoon.
I see a Solano/Pham type signings for 3B and outfield.
They will fill out the roster in a similar way as this offseason IMO

[Old school 1983]

I doubt Farmer is going anywhere. I expect him to be next years opening day shortstop. I know people do what to here that or that Senzel will be the starting CF Fraley and Aquino will be a corner platoon.
I see a Solano/Pham type signings for 3B and outfield.
They will fill out the roster in a similar way as this offseason IMO

I have a gut feeling they roll the dice on some of the kids moving forward.

[Assembly Hall]

I doubt Farmer is going anywhere. I expect him to be next years opening day shortstop. I know people do what to here that or that Senzel will be the starting CF Fraley and Aquino will be a corner platoon.
I see a Solano/Pham type signings for 3B and outfield.
They will fill out the roster in a similar way as this offseason IMO

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Old school 1983]

I have a gut feeling they roll the dice on some of the kids moving forward.

To my previous point. Just for discussions sake. Say McLain, Steer, EDLC, CES, and Marte light it up for rest of the year. Would you consider going into the season with the following

1b: Votto
2b: McLain
SS: Barerro
3b: Steer
CF: EDLC
LF: Marte
RF: FA
C: Stephenson
DH: CES

Might be blasphemy to some, but would you do that and roll the dice on trading India for a solid starting pitcher or big OF bat?

[REDREAD]

On the broadcast last night, Krall kept talking about how they added potential impact talent via the trades and draft. That is the route they should go in FA. True impact players or guys a notch down, but have an elite skill in their game. And then pieces in the price range of those they added this year. Middling priced FA often are the type that end up getting you burned.

As of right now it’s lining up that there is one stud type player available for the next 3 offseasons.

2022-Judge
2023-Ohtani
2024-Soto

This off-season I’d make a push for Edwin Diaz and Aaron Judge. Both will cost, but neither will ruin the payroll, especially considering the low cost of the rest of the team. It’ll fit even better when Votto and Moose come off the books.

If Judge is a touch old and you don’t think he’d fit the overarching time-line, the Reds will have a clean slate payroll going into 2024, hopefully an established rotation and some stud prospects coming up. Offer the sun, moon and stars to Ohtani.

Targeting guys like Benintendi are the type of deals that really blow up. He can go meh in a hurry. If any of those elite guys loses a step they are still likely producing star caliber outcomes.

IF they wouldn't pay Raesel's salary, what makes you think they will pony up for Diaz? There's just no way they are going to spend big on the bullpen.
I don't see why some people (not necessarily you, I forget who said what) will complain about Castillo or Mahle being a risk to sign longterm, then they are willing to bid on Judge/Otahni.. Both want about 40 million/year.
The Reds are going to have to pay a premium for a super star to come to an irrelvant franchise.. Those 2 guys are going to want postseason exposure, not being dumped in Cincy, waiting 5 years for the next wave of prospects to come up.
Cast wanted to come back, Reds didn't even exchange numbers with him.. Judge is going to cost almost double.. there's just no way it's going to happen.