Jose Barrero Called Up

[Tony Cloninger]

The Reds need to recognize Jose’s plate discipline problem and focus heavily on improving it. I don’t get how promoting him to face MLB pitching now was designed to accomplish that.

Some people said “let’s see what we have.” I don’t want to see what we have. I want the emphasis to be on improving this one area that stands out as a serious weakness. He’s still relatively young, finish the development.

Which speaks about the developments being coached in the minors and why I’m starting to doubt these coaches are capable of having even the talented players ready to produce up here. At least quickly enough to not waste the arb years.

[MoneyInTheBank]

His plate discipline certainly needs work but I do think some of it is potentially related to the wrist. If he's still building strength back in that wrist, he could be cheating a little bit. This certainly does not excuse the swings and misses on pitches that were never strikes but I think there's an element of the wrist involved.

[HokieRed]

Which speaks about the developments being coached in the minors and why I’m starting to doubt these coaches are capable of having even the talented players ready to produce up here. At least quickly enough to not waste the arb years.

You know, it's not technology, where all you need to do is repeat, modify, repeat, modify etc. Sometimes players just can't do that. I'm not saying that's true of Barrero, but just to point out the limits of coaching and development.

[mth123]

He's had 437 AAA PA's, almost 1900 in the minor leagues altogether. It's time. He's either going to be able to do it or not, and the org. needs to know that. There's nothing at stake in the season. When is a better time?

A better time would be when he can sustain an OPS above .600 in AAA. Its not going to make him a big-league asset any sooner. He's still recovering from a significant injury, so there is still a lot of doubt in "what we have" as we knew there would be. He's burning service time, losing value with his struggles and we really don't know anything more than we did the day he was promoted. What exactly did we find out? A guy who was struggling to OPS 0.600 in AAA who was still trying to come back from injury is overmatched in the big leagues? Did we really need a promotion to know that? We had all the evidence we needed in his AAA performance.

IMO, this was another front office "trick." The fans were restless after all the deals for the future and wanted to see some of that future as soon as possible (as many on this site did). So what did the front office do? Ready or not, they gave us the sacrificial lamb - Jose Barrero.

[mth123]

His plate discipline certainly needs work but I do think some of it is potentially related to the wrist. If he's still building strength back in that wrist, he could be cheating a little bit. This certainly does not excuse the swings and misses on pitches that were never strikes but I think there's an element of the wrist involved.

This is what I think as well. I think he's swinging before he knows where the pitch is going to go and hoping the ball hits the bat because he doesn't have the strength back yet to flick his wrists at it. But hey, at least he is developing a terrible habit in the process.

[HokieRed]

A better time would be when he can sustain an OPS above .600 in AAA. Its not going to make him a big-league asset any sooner. He's still recovering from a significant injury, so there is still a lot of doubt in "what we have" as we knew there would be. He's burning service time, losing value with his struggles and we really don't know anything more than we did the day he was promoted. What exactly did we find out? A guy who was struggling to OPS 0.600 in AAA who was still trying to come back from injury is overmatched in the big leagues? Did we really need a promotion to know that? We had all the evidence we needed in his AAA performance.

IMO, this was another front office "trick." The fans were restless after all the deals for the future and wanted to see some of that future as soon as possible (as many on this site did). So what did the front office do? Ready or not, they gave us the sacrificial lamb - Jose Barrero.

He doesn't need to learn to recognize AAA breaking stuff, he needs to recognize major league breaking stuff. There's a difference. I don't think there is a better time. You need to know if there's a chance he's next year's shortstop. You're not going to learn that by having him in AAA. If he can't do it, it's gping to have to be Farmer again and they need to plan accordingly. The hamate break is a terrible bit of bad luck. I don't think anybody out of RZ is asking for perfection from him, they are looking for progress in pitch recognition.

[Tuff Nut]

Imo, we all might of had a better chance to see what Jose could have become, when he was called up a couple years ago, after doing well in AAA, only to ride the pine in Cincy. He should had been playing most to everyday then.

[Tony Cloninger]

You know, it's not technology, where all you need to do is repeat, modify, repeat, modify etc. Sometimes players just can't do that. I'm not saying that's true of Barrero, but just to point out the limits of coaching and development.

Good thing they traded with the Twins for some hitters who look like they can.

[Assembly Hall]

Imo, we all might of had a better chance to see what Jose could have become, when he was called up a couple years ago, after doing well in AAA, only to ride the pine in Cincy. He should had been playing most to everyday then.

"A day late and a dollar short."---Reds Motto

[Kc61]

He doesn't need to learn to recognize AAA breaking stuff, he needs to recognize major league breaking stuff. There's a difference. .

If Barrero can’t recognize AAA breaking stuff, it’s very doubtful he can do it in the majors

So you can teach him or throw him to the wolves.

My vote would have been to teach him. The Reds threw him to the wolves.

[Sea Ray]

If Barrero can’t recognize AAA breaking stuff, it’s very doubtful he can do it in the majors

So you can teach him or throw him to the wolves.

My vote would have been to teach him. The Reds threw him to the wolves.

He can't recognize balls out of the strike zone. Don't think it's particularly about breaking balls. Some of those pitches he's swinging wildly at were never headed for the strike zone, from the time it left the pitcher's hand

[mth123]

He doesn't need to learn to recognize AAA breaking stuff, he needs to recognize major league breaking stuff. There's a difference. I don't think there is a better time. You need to know if there's a chance he's next year's shortstop. You're not going to learn that by having him in AAA. If he can't do it, it's gping to have to be Farmer again and they need to plan accordingly. The hamate break is a terrible bit of bad luck. I don't think anybody out of RZ is asking for perfection from him, they are looking for progress in pitch recognition.

He needs to get over his injury before taking on anything new. Trying to learn that while he's recovering is a fools errand. We don't know any more if he's next year's SS or not based on his performance than we did without this performance.

[HokieRed]

It's an investment in what he might do next July. He needs to see major league stuff. He's either going to do it now in order to be ready for a role next year or he's going to have to wait till next year and then you just put off his being useful until even later. Hopefully he's not so tender psychologically that this is "throwing him to the wolves." If he is, he's probably not going to make it now or any other time.

[kaldaniels]

This is not meant to give anyone a hard time as I’m included in the sample.

But I just think we all got a bit out ahead of our skis on Barrero and it’s as simple as that. He may still bloom but I’d say he had a bit too much prospect helium and the rushed promotion in 2020 added to the illusion.

[Kc61]

It's an investment in what he might do next July. He needs to see major league stuff. He's either going to do it now in order to be ready for a role next year or he's going to have to wait till next year and then you just put off his being useful until even later. Hopefully he's not so tender psychologically that this is "throwing him to the wolves." If he is, he's probably not going to make it now or any other time.

But he couldn’t hit AAA pitching this year.