2022 MLB In Season Discussion pt. II

[CaiGuy]

They had those players last year and were decidedly mediocre. Plus they got 5.9 bWar out of Miley, an unbelievable 37 year old year out of Votto, and probably a career year from Mahle. You could probably have watched them flounder around in third place in the Central again and had no hope for anything different in the future. I'd argue this year they finally decided to stop pretending.

Grey, Castillo, and Malhe were under team control through the end of 2023. They would have added Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft to that group.

That alone tells me what could have been. The rotation is the hardest part, and it would have been in place. It's easier to take an 83 win team over the top than a 70 win team.

Now they are back in the hole again and starting over. I am actually somewhat positive about the place they are in, with a clean slate and a lot of talent in the pipeline, but there is a chance it never develops into anything and they never use this much-harolded payflex.

I prefer the better, even if flawed, team they could have had in place.

[HokieRed]

Grey, Castillo, and Malhe were under team control through the end of 2023. They would have added Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft to that group.

That alone tells me what could have been. The rotation is the hardest part, and it would have been in place. It's easier to take an 83 win team over the top than a 70 win team.

Now they are back in the hole again and starting over. I am actually somewhat positive about the place they are in, with a clean slate and a lot of talent in the pipeline, but there is a chance it never develops into anty9ing and they never use this much-harolded payflex.

I prefer the better, even if flawed, team they could have had in place.

And you would have continued to dink along in the middle of the division until kingdom come. Sorry I'd rather break out and take a risk on amassing enough quality young talent of similar age to put together a contender every year.

[HokieRed]

They could have chosen to bring in more talent and spent more money and try to win today instead of giving talent away and spending less and losing today.

I don't think they gave that much talent away. Wade Miley p;ut up 5.9 bWar last year for them, this year he's thrown 19 innings. Tucker Barnhart has produced nada for the Tigers. Drury and Pham were, last time I checked, at least the WAR equivalent of Castellanos and Winker. Joey Votto is 38 years old, put up a remarkable year last year that no one should have expected him to repeat. What the range of players from last year's roster has produced this year is witness to how lucky they were even to win 83 last year.

[LeatherPants]

I don't think they gave that much talent away. Wade Miley p;ut up 5.9 bWar last year for them, this year he's thrown 19 innings. Tucker Barnhart has produced nada for the Tigers. Drury and Pham were, last time I checked, at least the WAR equivalent of Castellanos and Winker. Joey Votto is 38 years old, put up a remarkable year last year that no one should have expected him to repeat. What the range of players from last year's roster has produced this year is witness to how lucky they were even to win 83 last year.

You forgot the part where I said take last year's team and add to it, but if endless rebuilds that don't go anywhere is your thing, have at it.

[HokieRed]

I'd argue this is the year they finally decided to do nothing but pretend. Forget about the tedious business of managing and improving your roster, they are offering the circus of eternity in which the Reds are perfect and unspoiled. Results don't matter, and if this next generation turns out to be another collection of baseball players with their various strengths and deficits, then they will be cast aside as well so that you may fully embrace the unitary vision that is an unassailable, virtually unbeatable Reds team of the future.

Your metaphysics are interesting, but I'm not sure I really see the Reds FO as being as Gnostic as you suggest. I'm all in favor actually of dealing with the messy realities of adding player by player. In fact, I think I'm one of the few posters, anymore, who pretty much always talks about specific players, not some management language about what should be done in the abstract. In fact, in the offseason, I proposed they should strengthen the rotation by acquiring Jon Gray, then Michael Wacha, then Johnny Cueto (whom I've acutally been mentioning for a couple of years). I also suggested they just keep Castillo and Mahle even if they got nothing for them and take a serious shot at 2023. i also didn't like the trade of Gray, because I thought we had a good contract with him, and I didn't like throwing Suarez in with Winker because that trade looked reactive to me (and I think it was specifically reactive to the absurd contract with Moustakas). But IMO last year's roster was not nearly as good even as the mediocre record, and I don't think it was an unreasonable call by Krall to decide to try to acquire enough critical mass of young talent to go with the similarly aged talent in our system--EDLC, McClain, hopefully still Barrero, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft--to have a young core capable of competing for a number of years.

[Kingspoint]

I don't care if it's a Cardinals' player or that the only other time it happened it was a Cardinals' player, but for only the 2nd time in the modern era, a professional baseball player hit the homerun cycle; A solo-shot, a 2-Run HR, a 3-run jack and a Grand Slam.

https://www.milb.com/news/chandler-r...or-springfield

[M2]

And you would have continued to dink along in the middle of the division until kingdom come. Sorry I'd rather break out and take a risk on amassing enough quality young talent of similar age to put together a contender every year.

They didn't take a risk. They quit. And for that they get a big pile of of money and at least four years before anyone gets to hold them accountable.

[M2]

Your metaphysics are interesting, but I'm not sure I really see the Reds FO as being as Gnostic as you suggest. I'm all in favor actually of dealing with the messy realities of adding player by player. In fact, I think I'm one of the few posters, anymore, who pretty much always talks about specific players, not some management language about what should be done in the abstract. In fact, in the offseason, I proposed they should strengthen the rotation by acquiring Jon Gray, then Michael Wacha, then Johnny Cueto (whom I've acutally been mentioning for a couple of years). I also suggested they just keep Castillo and Mahle even if they got nothing for them and take a serious shot at 2023. i also didn't like the trade of Gray, because I thought we had a good contract with him, and I didn't like throwing Suarez in with Winker because that trade looked reactive to me (and I think it was specifically reactive to the absurd contract with Moustakas). But IMO last year's roster was not nearly as good even as the mediocre record, and I don't think it was an unreasonable call by Krall to decide to try to acquire enough critical mass of young talent to go with the similarly aged talent in our system--EDLC, McClain, hopefully still Barrero, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft--to have a young core capable of competing for a number of years.

The Reds didn't blow up their roster for baseball reasons. They flat out told us (aligning payroll with resources) their motive was financial. As you note, there were any number of paths a team motivated to stay in contention could have taken. Before it became sickeningly apparent the Reds were going to strip mine the operation I was talking about extending Castillo and Mahle, finding OFs and restocking the pen. But the Reds are something post-baseball. I'm not really sure there's much to discuss other than try out all of the kids and see who sticks.

[WrongVerb]

Thinking about the Braves. In the last few years they've debuted Acuna, Albies, Riley, Harris, Grissom, Contreras, Davidson, Anderson, Wright, and Strider. (I'm sure I missed a few.) They also traded a number of prospects for 28 year old Matt Olsen.

It occurs to me that the Reds are going to experience the same thing starting last season with India, Stephenson, the three horsemen in the rotation, and Diaz. They may add Steer by the end of the season. Next year should see EDLC, Williamson, Stoudt, CES, and more.

Anyway, I see a lot of parallels between the Reds today and the Braves from 5 years ago. It'll be interesting to see if it plays out the same way.

[westofyou]

Padres playing In DC tonight, Soto already there to rub it in their face

[Assembly Hall]

Padres playing In DC tonight, Soto already there to rub it in their face

That be on Apple TV+

[NebraskaRed]

Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan

BREAKING: Padres star Fernando Tatis Jr. violated Major League Baseball’s performance-enhancing drug policy and is facing a suspension, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN.

Whoa!

[NebraskaRed]

Mark Feinsand
@Feinsand

MLB announced that Fernando Tatis Jr. has received an 80-game suspension without pay after testing positive for Clostebol, a performance-enhancing substance in violation of MLB's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program. Tatis' suspension is effective immediately.

[Wonderful Monds]

Ooooooo dang

- - - Updated - - -

That’s not the kind of thing you wanna hear about a dude on a 15 year nearly 400 million dollar contract

[Tom Servo]

its over for Padrecels