"Lose For Crews"

[LeatherPants]

In Mancuso You Trust, I suppose.

I’m more of a Reds Reporter fan, but whatever. Troll is going to troll I guess.

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I disagree. The way to do this is to spend as you go. That way, you are not at the mercy of one FA class.

Look for improvements every year. Don’t overspend on them. Add multi-year contracts. Build.

The model of not spending, not spending, not spending, and then suddenly spending doesn’t work IMO. It leads to classes like Shogo, Castellanos, and Moustakas.

Hey, I’m personally all for it, but the Reds are cheap idiots.

[RedTeamGo!]

Troll is going to troll I guess.

Yeah, you brought the hostility to me first, brother. And now you are calling me a troll lol.

Relax, you'll live longer.

[Kc61]

Hey, I’m personally all for it, but the Reds are cheap idiots.

Yeah I’m concerned Reds will go to one extreme or the other. Spend “big” to appease fans and get tied to flabby, expensive contracts. Or, more likely, don’t spend at all for several years and wind up with gaping holes.

The best way to do it is look for opportunities every year, including in the FA market, but keep the spending controlled. And then, at the end, maybe make a splash. But I agree, it’s not likely, they’ve not shown themselves capable of steady building.

[LeatherPants]

Yeah, you brought the hostility to me first, brother. And now you are calling me a troll lol.

Relax, you'll live longer.

What hostility, we were having a discussion? And how is “in mancusco You trust” not trolling?

[Roy Tucker]

It is the plan. They’ve said so. All the emphasis is on prospects and the longer term future. It’s not a terrible plan except at this point, after all the years of irrelevance, it’s hard to take.

But the Reds could now stray from the plan. They may not be able to take the heat from the media and fans. Especially after Phil C’s comment, where they gonna go, which was a major mistake.

I think, whenever it was they made these plans, they sat around in a conference room and white boarded the whole thing up. But I don’t think they realized the disaster it was going to result in. I would hope they are somewhat horrified.

It will be interesting to watch and see if they see the plan through. I’d imagine, particularly if they get off to a poor 2023 start, GABP will be a ghost yard.

[LeatherPants]

I think, whenever it was they made these plans, they sat around in a conference room and white boarded the whole thing up. But I don’t think they realized the disaster it was going to result in. I would hope they are somewhat horrified.

It will be interesting to watch and see if they see the plan through. I’d imagine, particularly if they get off to a poor 2023 start, GABP will be a ghost yard.

The sad thing is that with revenue sharing GAB can be a ghost town and they can still make money hand over fist. Plus, it’ll give ownerships an excuse to cut payroll even further after Votto and Moose are off the books.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think, whenever it was they made these plans, they sat around in a conference room and white boarded the whole thing up. But I don’t think they realized the disaster it was going to result in. I would hope they are somewhat horrified.

It will be interesting to watch and see if they see the plan through. I’d imagine, particularly if they get off to a poor 2023 start, GABP will be a ghost yard.

This offseason is going to be a disaster. I think the Reds are going to punt 2023 and try to deliver the message they are going to build going into 2024. And it is going to go over with the fanbase like a wet far in an elevator.

I agree with KC, they should sign a couple 3-4 year contracts this offseason.

[REDREAD]

This offseason is going to be a disaster. I think the Reds are going to punt 2023 and try to deliver the message they are going to build going into 2024. And it is going to go over with the fanbase like a wet far in an elevator.

I agree with KC, they should sign a couple 3-4 year contracts this offseason.

Or the Reds could make trades (using their deep farm system), to get players that can play now.
Although, I agree with using the FA market too.
Like KC says, the goal should be to get better every year. Really hard to take a losing team and say "ok, this is the year we want to win, go ahead and sign Shogo, Moose, Miley, etc"
That seldom works out. The Marlins pulled it off in the mid 90s, I am sure a few other teams have too, but it fails more often than not.

[Kc61]

This offseason is going to be a disaster. I think the Reds are going to punt 2023 and try to deliver the message they are going to build going into 2024. And it is going to go over with the fanbase like a wet far in an elevator.

I agree with KC, they should sign a couple 3-4 year contracts this offseason.

A couple of 2 to 3 year contracts, maybe go to 4 in a special good deal. A couple of one year stop gap deals. Keep adding prospects if there’s a chance. International. Draft well. Build with all types except the high end of salaries.

The Mets, with all their money, benefitted from signings like Canha and Escobar, $10-13 million range, last off-season. Good all around solid non-star players. These types add to a team considerably.

I don’t mind if the Reds bank, for now, on De La Cruz, Marte, Greene, Lodolo to be their big stars. I’m ok with that to save big money. But at least build an infrastructure of solid average players you can afford and who prevent disastrous seasons like 2022.

[Kc61]

Or the Reds could make trades (using their deep farm system), to get players that can play now.
Although, I agree with using the FA market too.
Like KC says, the goal should be to get better every year. Really hard to take a losing team and say "ok, this is the year we want to win, go ahead and sign Shogo, Moose, Miley, etc"
That seldom works out. The Marlins pulled it off in the mid 90s, I am sure a few other teams have too, but it fails more often than not.

With the Reds’ current payflex, I see little reason to trade from prospects, although I’d never say never. They can afford medium free agents. There are a ton of FAs on the market every year at all levels. And if they spend a little, they can still look forward to another payroll reduction in 2024 with Votto and Moose.

[757690]

Forgetting for the moment that there’s no such thing as a small market team and pretending that the Reds really are cashed strapped, it doesn’t make sense for them to go spend money on short term help when they have no chance to win next year. A $100 million payroll in 2023 is just a waste of $25 million that they will not be able to spend later.

They’ll save the money for later (and be pound foolish).

We don’t know how the Reds will approach this offseason and next season. However there is a flaw in your logic.

The Reds knew they had no chance of contending this year, 2022, and yet they chose to have a $115M payroll. They added over $20M to the payroll at the end of the offseason. Some of it was spent wisely, some of it was not, but they spent it.

If the Reds stick to the plan that they’ve been working under, no guarantee that they will, but if they do, they will spend this off season and have another payroll around $115M.

I don’t think the debate is over whether the Reds will spend this offseason, the debate is over whether they will spend wisely. That really has always been their problem.

[Roy Tucker]

It will be interesting to see what spin they put on the 2023 season. I would think the casual fan has long since abandoned the team. What they’re left with are knuckleheads like us that are still hanging in there with the dang team. We may say we don’t care but the fact we’re here and discussing the team shows otherwise.

But I’m not going to games. Or will go to maybe 1 or 2. Being a Reds fan for getting closer to 60 years, I’ve seen a lot a seasons. I know good and I know bad. This is a bad team and it just isn’t much fun to go watch. If I need an excuse to go drink beer, there are other more entertaining places to go. I’m going to wait and see if there is any semblance of a ball club down at GABP before I spend any more entertainment dollars on them.

But if I may speak personally, between cancer and COVID, I’ve been reminded of my mortality in 2022. I don’t have an endless stream of Reds seasons in front of me. I may just go to games because of what the team has meant to me from the ages between 12 and 70. Go sit in a baseball stadium and hear the crowd and just lose myself in the game for a while.

[Ron Madden]

It will be interesting to see what spin they put on the 2023 season. I would think the casual fan has long since abandoned the team. What they’re left with are knuckleheads like us that are still hanging in there with the dang team. We may say we don’t care but the fact we’re here and discussing the team shows otherwise.

But I’m not going to games. Or will go to maybe 1 or 2. Being a Reds fan for getting closer to 60 years, I’ve seen a lot a seasons. I know good and I know bad. This is a bad team and it just isn’t much fun to go watch. If I need an excuse to go drink beer, there are other more entertaining places to go. I’m going to wait and see if there is any semblance of a ball club down at GABP before I spend any more entertainment dollars on them.

But if I may speak personally, between cancer and COVID, I’ve been reminded of my mortality in 2022. I don’t have an endless stream of Reds seasons in front of me. I may just go to games because of what the team has meant to me from the ages between 12 and 70. Go sit in a baseball stadium and hear the crowd and just lose myself in the game for a while.

Saying I can relate to this would be an understatement.One of my first memories of the Reds has me sitting on the living room floor in 1961 watching the Reds and Yankees WS with my older brothers.

Like you, I've been a fan for a little over 60 years.
I've seen a whole lotta baseball - good and bad. More losing seasons than winning ones but it seems Reds baseball is part of my DNA.

And like you, after a bout with cancer and a stroke I'm well aware of my mortality. Many a day here lately I've told myself to stop wasting precious time on this club, if ownership doesn't care why should I?
But here I am and most likely here I'll stay until my time runs out.

[cumberlandreds]

It will be interesting to see what spin they put on the 2023 season. I would think the casual fan has long since abandoned the team. What they’re left with are knuckleheads like us that are still hanging in there with the dang team. We may say we don’t care but the fact we’re here and discussing the team shows otherwise.

But I’m not going to games. Or will go to maybe 1 or 2. Being a Reds fan for getting closer to 60 years, I’ve seen a lot a seasons. I know good and I know bad. This is a bad team and it just isn’t much fun to go watch. If I need an excuse to go drink beer, there are other more entertaining places to go. I’m going to wait and see if there is any semblance of a ball club down at GABP before I spend any more entertainment dollars on them.

But if I may speak personally, between cancer and COVID, I’ve been reminded of my mortality in 2022. I don’t have an endless stream of Reds seasons in front of me. I may just go to games because of what the team has meant to me from the ages between 12 and 70. Go sit in a baseball stadium and hear the crowd and just lose myself in the game for a while.

Same here. I will be 60 by the time next season rolls around and I can't justify wasting time watching a franchise that just doesn't care much about winning any more. I'm sure I will watch some but it will become fewer and fewer as long as the losing continues.

[Wonderful Monds]

They suck by design. Don’t kid yourself for a second. All according to plan.

In the sense that they’re cheap by design. I don’t think they remotely care about what draft pick they get or what happens on the field.