Reds should spend money and try to win, not increase short-term profits

[WrongVerb]

If the Reds were to spend, I want them to trade for, and extend, Ohtani. He would be the foundation as the kids come up to the majors. BTV says that unlike Soto, a trade for Ohtani wouldn't cost an outrageous package. India+Marte+Stout would get it done. Obviously, you don't make the trade of if Ohtani isn't open to an extension. But if he was, and the Reds did, this is what I imagine 2025 would look like:

1b CES
2b McLain
SS Barrero or Arroyo
3b Steer
LF McGarry
CF Siani
RF EDLC
CA Stephenson
DH Ohtani

RH Greene
RH Ohtani
LH Lodolo
RH Ashcraft

[westofyou]

The Cards have out-everything-ed the Reds for decades and decades with or without a football team (mostly with) and an NHL franchise. There is zero excuse for the Reds not to be in the same conversation as the Cardinals other than ownership ineptitude, indifference, or greed. I understand that can’t be turned around in a year or 5. But pretending like the Cardinals have some insurmountable structural advantage is really just a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Reds could be great. They choose not to be.

They have the better known brand, period.

It has everything to do with the past 20 years but even more it has everything to do with the folks they had in their baseball history. You might not see it, but the rest of the country and every baseball historian sees it. They were the best team in the American Association, perfected the minor leagues, exploded the market with their expansive broadcast affiliations, have been in the in the World Series in seven decades in the last 100 years with 19 visits to the Reds nine.

Better brand, better business acumen from the stewards of the team.

Sure the Reds could be that, it ain't happening in ten, or twenty years though

[GAC]

No one--literally no one--is saying spend like the Dodgers. Can we put that canard to rest? Please? We are literally asking to not trade off flotillas of talent despite that talent being signed to very favorable contracts or making somewhat more due to arbitration. Good lord.

It's simply being smart with the monies you have. While I had no problem with the Votto contract, and I don't think it's been a loser deal for the organization overall, not by today's standards ... organizations like the Reds need to shy away from them. You try to develop what you can, build some sort of "foundation" with several solid, organizational players under your control for several years, while filling in the holes via the market with smaller, managable contracts. And no, that's not an easy thing to accomplish with players/agents looking for that guaranteed LT money, and the competition that exists.

The bottomline, IMO, any more, is that organizations like the Reds, and many others, appearing in, winning, a WS is like catching lightning in a bottle. That particular year you have to find that "combination" where you're hitting on all cylinders. Like a "wire to wire" year.

[InsaneinthBrame]

It's simply being smart with the monies you have. While I had no problem with the Votto contract, and I don't think it's been a loser deal for the organization overall, not by today's standards ... organizations like the Reds need to shy away from them. You try to develop what you can, build some sort of "foundation" with several solid, organizational players under your control for several years, while filling in the holes via the market with smaller, managable contracts. And no, that's not an easy thing to accomplish with players/agents looking for that guaranteed LT money, and the competition that exists.

The bottomline, IMO, any more, is that organizations like the Reds, and many others, appearing in, winning, a WS is like catching lightning in a bottle. That particular year you have to find that "combination" where you're hitting on all cylinders. Like a "wire to wire" year.

With the expanded playoffs I think that you only really need to get hot/lucky in playoffs. Braves got hot last year. Playoffs will likely we a crap shoot going forward

[CmdrCody]

The Reds have had a unique combination of cheapness and incompetence ever since Marge was forced out, with a few exceptions.. the Walt era.. and 1999 if you count that as part of the post Marge era (I consider that team to be part of the Marge era, but it's debatable, so I will mention it).
I really admire the people that can still be optimistic after all the garbage that has happened the last 12 months.

The Astros and Cubs pulling off a successful tank to contention was probably the worst possible thing for baseball. It allows team like the Reds, Pirates, and this year's Cubs to sell the fans on that dream.

Then greedy MLB installs expanded playoffs, which gives them more TV money and also makes it easier for teams that are barely 500 to sneak into the playoffs. Which lowers the bar for a "Competitive" season and makes the post season a joke.

Sadly, nothing will change unless we get new ownership and/or MLB changes the revenue distribution to penalize tankers.
In a dream world, the national TV money would be distributed based on W-L percentage.. or at the bare minimum there would be a minimum payroll and/or minimum number of wins required for small market teams to get revenue sharing. Obviously, it will never happen, as the tanker owners would never vote themselves off Easy Street.

It's had for me to even care. I was at a sports bar last night with a friend, we used to both be Reds fans, the Field of Dreams game was on, we didn't even care. I think the score was 3-0 or 2-0 when we walked in, it was just safe to assume the game was lost.

They actually had a GREAT level of Cheapness when Marge was in charge.
She actually was angry when the opening day game was cancelled because the umpire died of a heart attack April 1, 1996. No fooling, she was incensed and insensitive.
DON’T PUT HER ON A PEDASTAL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HammerTime]

This season is an all time low for me. I'm at the point where I can't watch the games for more than 1-3 innings. Seligstinks is right but the owners won't do that. So many in today's world are "Me first. You? Whatever."

The last two season have really beaten me down as a Reds fan. My provider doesn't carry Reds games so it was a chore to watch them at times. This year I barely care enough to try unless it's a guy starting I want to see pitch. I've watched very few games. I know ownership doesn't care even a little. I'm sure that is the case a lot of times, but it hits different when they openly say it to your face. Hopefully the tides are turning on the direction of the franchise.

[RedlegJake]

They actually had a GREAT level of Cheapness when Marge was in charge.
She actually was angry when the opening day game was cancelled because the umpire died of a heart attack April 1, 1996. No fooling, she was incensed and insensitive.
DON’T PUT HER ON A PEDASTAL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marge operated in a different cheaper era where she could splurge on the big team yet let scouting, the minors, development founder. She wouldn't have the means to continue paying a top 5 payroll in today's inflated cost game and her penuriousness in development and scouting would kill the franchise. She also offended many players and by herself made a laughingstock of the team. I don't get the admiration so many seem to have for her.

[Ren Deagle]

I can only think of one reason not to pick up Votto's option for 2024: Christian Encarnacion-Strand. That kid can hit. You could spend the money on a bullpen instead.

[Falls City Beer]

They have the better known brand, period.

It has everything to do with the past 20 years but even more it has everything to do with the folks they had in their baseball history. You might not see it, but the rest of the country and every baseball historian sees it. They were the best team in the American Association, perfected the minor leagues, exploded the market with their expansive broadcast affiliations, have been in the in the World Series in seven decades in the last 100 years with 19 visits to the Reds nine.

Better brand, better business acumen from the stewards of the team.

Sure the Reds could be that, it ain't happening in ten, or twenty years though

Clearly they have the better history. But the Reds have in their entire history had about 25 years where they were a legitimate force. And that’s a choice. Year after year, they choose to lie supine on the mat. No one is standing in their way but themselves.

[Falls City Beer]

I don’t even think that “the Reds have spent poorly” in the Castellini era is right either. I think they’ve simply failed to execute anything close to a vision. They’ve just lurched from half-baked approach to half-baked approach. Why should anyone believe that the “stacked pipeline plan” will be any different?

[Tom Servo]

The Reds should trade for Fernando Tatis Jr.

[REDREAD]

They have the better known brand, period.

It has everything to do with the past 20 years but even more it has everything to do with the folks they had in their baseball history. You might not see it, but the rest of the country and every baseball historian sees it. They were the best team in the American Association, perfected the minor leagues, exploded the market with their expansive broadcast affiliations, have been in the in the World Series in seven decades in the last 100 years with 19 visits to the Reds nine.

Better brand, better business acumen from the stewards of the team.

Sure the Reds could be that, it ain't happening in ten, or twenty years though

The last time the Reds really had a heydey.. 1990-1995, they came pretty close to the Cardinals attendance.
Reds actually outdrew the Cards in 1994 and 1995.
Then.. as I said.. Cardinals rode McGwire to the next level, while the Reds cried poor and wasted Jr.
IMO, the Reds and Cardinals were very close 90-95.. IMO, it has everything to do with Lindner, Allen, and Castanelli.
Most people are not baseball historians. (I am not criticizing any that are). We complain here that the Big Red Machine really is not relevant to Reds fans anymore (other than some good memories).. but it's not bringing in new fans. Likewise, whatever the Cards did 50-100 years ago has very little to do with their attendance/market size now.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/t...N/attend.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/t...L/attend.shtml

[REDREAD]

They actually had a GREAT level of Cheapness when Marge was in charge.
She actually was angry when the opening day game was cancelled because the umpire died of a heart attack April 1, 1996. No fooling, she was incensed and insensitive.
DON’T PUT HER ON A PEDASTAL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can say that Marge ran the team better than any owner in my lifetime while still acknowledging that day was a misstep and insensitive.
You can list all her personality faults you want, but she wanted to win and delivered.
Now if someone wants to say they'd rather have an owner that hardly speaks and tanks every year than Marge, that's their perogative.
Facts: Marge wanted to win and put her money where her mouth was.
Enjoy Phil C running this team into the ground. He's really sensitive when he talks to the fans.
The only difference between him and Marge is that Phil is smart enough to keep his mouth shut most of the time.
Marge was dumb, she'd keep talking to reporters.

[REDREAD]

I don’t even think that “the Reds have spent poorly” in the Castellini era is right either. I think they’ve simply failed to execute anything close to a vision. They’ve just lurched from half-baked approach to half-baked approach. Why should anyone believe that the “stacked pipeline plan” will be any different?

Yep, this "reload the pipeline" is just another excuse to tank. It will fail.

[RedlegJake]

It will fail because they will do the same thing....as soon as this new pipeline hits the majors and gets a couple years experience and actually become good solid star quality veterans, they will trade them for more prospects because they can't afford to keep them together. They my even pull another "we're in it this year" and sign a couple expensive free agents to supplement the roster hoping to catch that lightning in a bottle pennant run but immediately after they'll strip the team and begin again. Its their modus operandi. New ownership and a new FO are the only realistic hope this team will ever consistently win again.