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Thread: Jonathan India

  1. #1
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Jonathan India

    Jonathan India had an excellent rookie season, as we all know.

    This season has basically been one step from worst case scenario with him. He got hurt very early on with a hamstring injury. However, he was not hitting well before that. He has shown some flashes here and there, but on the season it's been pretty ugly.

    At this point, this is what we are looking at through 59 games and 247 PA:

    -0.5 bWAR
    55 hits
    7 HR
    .243/.308/385 - 693 OPS
    85 OPS+
    61 Ks against only 12 BB

    On top of the poor offensive numbers he currently has a -0.8 defensive WAR

    In short, its been bad.

    My hope is this is a sophomore/injury riddled season. Clearly he will be the guy at 2B going into 2023. However, if he is healthy next year and its looking like this again, well, thankfully we have Arroyo, Marte, McLain, De La Cruz, Steer, Encarnacion-Stroud in the minors. Personally, I was not sold on India while he was in the minors, he had very questionable numbers at the minor league level. He showed up to ST prior to 2021 and started hitting the cover off the ball, and then that continued through the 2021 season. With that said, maybe that was a mirage, and the sum of his minor league numbers is moreso what we should expect?

    What are we thinking on India right now and moving forward? Is this just a sophomore slump/injury riddled year?
    What would you say.....ya do here?


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  3. #2
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    He wouldn't be the first guy to fall off a cliff after a great rookie year, but I think this is just a lost season due to injuries and lack of consistent prep time.

    Next year we'll find out, because he should be written in stone at 2B and in the lead-off spot.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  5. #3
    Moderator cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Sophomore slump. He will be fine.
    Last edited by cumberlandreds; 08-12-2022 at 02:22 PM. Reason: spelling
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Re: Jonathan India

    The plate discipline is way down( 12/61 BB/SO ratio compared to 71/141 last year). His average exit velo has dropped 3 MPH and hard hit % is down nearly 10%. Those numbers could be from pressing trying to do too much to carry the team and chasing bad pitches. Last year with a good offense around him and better protection in the lineup India seemed more relaxed at the plate this year he's been jumpy.

    I'm willing to write it off to an injury plagued fluke year, but next year will tell us for certain.

    I'm not sold on India being a second baseman going forward. If the shift gets banned then range at 2nd becomes much more important. If that were the case teams will be looking at two SS types for the middle IF.
    Last edited by JCM11; 08-12-2022 at 02:19 PM.

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  8. #5
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    Re: Jonathan India

    I, too, think he will be fine. Hard to put up consistent numbers when riddled with injuries. Pitchers had a whole season to see him and adjust. A soph slump is not surprising. I think he'll come back with good numbers next season. However, it wouldn't be terribly shocking if Jonathan's rookie season turns out to be his career best.
    “It’s the mathematical potential for a single game to last forever, in a suspended world where no clock rules the day, that aligns baseball as much with the dead as the living.”
    ---- Bill Vaughn

  9. #6
    he/him *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    We talked a fair amount last year about how abnormal, surprising, and potentially unsustainable his walk rate was. I think he's going to hit 30 home runs at least once before he retires, but I also doubt he'll ever isoD over .100 again and I have concerns about his defense turning him into a tweener...

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  11. #7
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    Re: Jonathan India

    The Defense that I've seen from India has been terrible on a consistent basis. Not a guy I would want playing 2B if you have better Defensive alternatives who can OPS within 100 points of him, especially with an extremely inexperienced pitching staff. I want good to great Defense at every position, but especially up the middle.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  12. #8
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Fried Redleg View Post
    I, too, think he will be fine. Hard to put up consistent numbers when riddled with injuries. Pitchers had a whole season to see him and adjust. A soph slump is not surprising. I think he'll come back with good numbers next season. However, it wouldn't be terribly shocking if Jonathan's rookie season turns out to be his career best.
    Riddled with injuries is a negative. If you can't play, you need to be replaced with someone that can be relied on.

    Inconsistent Offense.

    Inconsistent Defense.

    Inconsistent Availability.

    That screams Unreliable and needing to be replaced.

    India needs to prove he's not any of this.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  13. #9
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    I think it's mostly the injuries, could just be the sophomore slump.

    Hope he bounces back next season.

    I am concerned about his defense though.
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 08-12-2022 at 02:47 PM.

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  15. #10
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    Re: Jonathan India

    India does set up as a perfect trade candidate next Winter. Swap from a position of strength a player who can be replaced with a better player, a much better Defender, and exchange him for equally controllable major league ready relief pitching since nobody can pitch more than 5 innings it seems anymore.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  16. #11
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Make me an offer. This is a dead last place team.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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  18. #12
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    He should be locked into 2b and lead off going into next season unless the Reds get blown away in deal for him. I do think he’s the one guy that is left that could bring back significant help and be instantly replaced by an up and comer. If you get blown away on a deal for him over the winter, take it. If not, play him and reassess at next years deadline based upon his performance and the prospects’ development. I think you could move him for some badly needed lefty pop and or pitching help.

  19. #13
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Injuries like hamstrings indicate to me he needs to work on his conditioning and flexibility.
    ”Candlesticks always make a nice gift, and uh, maybe you could find out where she’s registered, maybe a place-setting or maybe a silverware pattern’s good. Okay, let’s get two!”

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  21. #14
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Injuries like hamstrings indicate to me he needs to work on his conditioning and flexibility.
    Short spring, then he injured it early and it never healed. That said he won't heal that going balls out and playing middle infield where short bursts are essential to the position.

    He came in heavier this year, all muscle too. I like my ballplayers flexible more than noticeably buff from the weight room

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  23. #15
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    Re: Jonathan India

    Good points from Mr. Tucker and westofyou. I think Jonathan needs to pay attention to them.
    “It’s the mathematical potential for a single game to last forever, in a suspended world where no clock rules the day, that aligns baseball as much with the dead as the living.”
    ---- Bill Vaughn


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