Votto having surgery Fri

[Coopdaddy67]

How could you play through that at all?

My guess is that he received cortisone shots, it got continually got worse over time and pain management was no longer working.

I played football a couple years with a torn rotator cuff until it got bad enough where I couldn't lift my arm more than 90 degrees from the front or side. Eventually you need surgery, but he was probably hoping he'd be able to wait until after his playing career was over.

[Tony Cloninger]

My guess is that he received cortisone shots, it got continually got worse over time and pain management was no longer working.

I played football a couple years with a torn rotator cuff until it got bad enough where I couldn't lift my arm more than 90 degrees from the front or side. Eventually you need surgery, but he was probably hoping he'd be able to wait until after his playing career was over.

Did it feel like a constant pain or just random hot shot of pain that last a few seconds. Waking up even if you’re not sleeping on it soreness that takes a minute after moving your arm around. Then your ok.

[OldFashionedRed]

You've done nothing but trash him all season. Put him out to pastor nonsense.
Now you've declared he won't come back from this.
Gimme a break. No now we know why he has been struggling? Of course he was going to struggle with that injury. A 25 year old would trying to play against the best in the world.
He is coming back and he will come back strong.
He is going to stick it to all you non believers. So don't be praising him next year when he comes back strong.
I don't wanna read it.

He's aging, and the only reason he's gotten as much playing time as he has is because of the contract and the Reds don't really have anyone they feel will fit into that spot. On most teams there would already have been a plan at this point. Saying a player is old, is aging, that his numbers reflect that aging, is not "trashing" a player. There are far worse things a person could say that would fall under "trashing". Please do not put words in my mouth that weren't mine, and thank you.

[Roy Tucker]

How could you play through that at all?

I tore my rotator cuff back in 1977 playing softball. The available surgery at that time was TJ but meatball surgery. My doctor said "learn to live with it". I played for the rest of the season, but my shoulder had one good throw in it per game. After I would cut loose with a throw, it hurt like hell for 2-3 days so I'd save it for a crucial throw. My SS knew and would come out and shorten the distance I had to throw. After that season, I said the hell with this.

10-15 years later, I could play catch with my kids if I was really careful warming up and not make max 100% throws. It eventually got better, but we're talking many years.

[KeefeCato]

I tore mine at 18. Diving for a ball. Sounded like a gunshot. I used to be able to throw 88-90. After I struggled to throw a ball from 3b to 1b without bouncing it.
Never did get it fixed. Now 37 years later a few months ago I started getting sever shoulder pain. Got xray and it confirmed a old torn rotar cuff. Got cortisone shots that ended up being useless. I just live with it now.

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He's aging, and the only reason he's gotten as much playing time as he has is because of the contract and the Reds don't really have anyone they feel will fit into that spot. On most teams there would already have been a plan at this point. Saying a player is old, is aging, that his numbers reflect that aging, is not "trashing" a player. There are far worse things a person could say that would fall under "trashing". Please do not put words in my mouth that weren't mine, and thank you.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You have been putting him down all season. Yet you think Ross Detwiler is good.

[Tony Cloninger]

I tore my rotator cuff back in 1977 playing softball. The available surgery at that time was TJ but meatball surgery. My doctor said "learn to live with it". I played for the rest of the season, but my shoulder had one good throw in it per game. After I would cut loose with a throw, it hurt like hell for 2-3 days so I'd save it for a crucial throw. My SS knew and would come out and shorten the distance I had to throw. After that season, I said the hell with this.

10-15 years later, I could play catch with my kids if I was really careful warming up and not make max 100% throws. It eventually got better, but we're talking many years.

Too bad you did not have Dr Jobe to go to.

[RedTeamGo!]

I bet he wanted to make sure he played in the Field of Dreams game too.

Good point, I’ll honestly be surprised if we see Votto play a regular season game again.

[Assembly Hall]

Here's to wishing Joey a full recovery. And I look forward to seeing him next year in full vengeance mode.

[Coopdaddy67]

Did it feel like a constant pain or just random hot shot of pain that last a few seconds. Waking up even if you’re not sleeping on it soreness that takes a minute after moving your arm around. Then your ok.

At the beginning, it would be painful when I moved it the wrong way or just overworked my shoulder. My power was zapped and my arm felt weak. Ice, rest and popping meds helped control it afterward, but that stops working after awhile.

As it got progressively worse, the pain was pretty much constant and it essentially hurt to move my arm at all.

[JFLegal]

Unpopular take probably, but any chance of a retirement settlement/buyout?

He’s owed 32M between the 25M 2023 salary and the 7M 2024 buyout. Any chance he’d take like 20M and not be forced to go through a grueling rehab at age 39 or however old he is?

My guess is that wouldn’t be the way he wants to go out, but I think it could make sense for both sides.

how would that make sense from votto's side? leave $12M on the table? when i'm sure he still wants to play and go out strong (which i know you alluded to). no way he would agree to that. plus, i want to see what he can do in 2023. although, after a serious surgery like this, i'm highly skeptical he will have a good season. this will make it impossible for him to lift weights for a long time. so, even after 6 months, how strong will he be? how much strength will he have lost compared to pre-surgery? and he'll be 39. add it all up, 2023 will probably be a rough final year for joey, but hopefully i'm wrong.

anyway, no way he accepts a buyout where he eats $12M. JMO.

[savafan]

I tore mine at 18. Diving for a ball. Sounded like a gunshot. I used to be able to throw 88-90. After I struggled to throw a ball from 3b to 1b without bouncing it.
Never did get it fixed. Now 37 years later a few months ago I started getting sever shoulder pain. Got xray and it confirmed a old torn rotar cuff. Got cortisone shots that ended up being useless. I just live with it now.

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I'm not putting words in your mouth. You have been putting him down all season. Yet you think Ross Detwiler is good.

Same story here, only I tore mine at 19, 27 years ago. Everything else matches up though.


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[westofyou]

Good point, I’ll honestly be surprised if we see Votto play a regular season game again.

I'll take that bet

[chicoruiz]

I think Moose is eligible to come off the DL tomorrow. Don’t think he’ll be ready though… guessing we’ll get Moran to finish August, then Moose for September.

[OldFashionedRed]

I tore mine at 18. Diving for a ball. Sounded like a gunshot. I used to be able to throw 88-90. After I struggled to throw a ball from 3b to 1b without bouncing it.
Never did get it fixed. Now 37 years later a few months ago I started getting sever shoulder pain. Got xray and it confirmed a old torn rotar cuff. Got cortisone shots that ended up being useless. I just live with it now.

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I'm not putting words in your mouth. You have been putting him down all season. Yet you think Ross Detwiler is good.

Facts are not "putting him down". He's old. In another age we wouldn't be having this discussion, you know it and i know it. Detwiler has not been bad out there season, he's been a lot better than the other options other than Diaz. That isn't say he's "good", but if they're not going to spend a lot of money on the bullpen, you bring back the guys who did the least amount of damage to it. Seems like you want to make things personal, that's not my style

[RedTeamGo!]

I'll take that bet

I think he is going to show up to ST, take some in-game wings and be like "oh, I am 40."