The Reds updated Top 30 Prospects according to MLBPipeline

[Bourgeois Zee]

Abbott has hit the AA wall hard. IMO keep Boyle as a starter until the Reds feel like they have 5 starters who are more reliable than he could be. Then shift him to pen

I think Boyle's bullpen-bound, but a guy can dream on those K rates (and the stuff he has in the 5th inning). A Boyle/ Stoudt/ Antone/ Diaz/ Santillan bullpen should be a major strength, capable of shortening games similar to the Nasty Boys of 1990. IMO, Abbott, Bonnin, and Roa all also are likely bullpen guys. (And Hubbart, fwiw.)

The best SP prospect who I think has the best chance to stick is undoudtedly Petty. Second is Williamson. After that, IMO, you have to go down to new Dayton Dragon Javi Rivera.

[Kc61]

Reds’ system used to lead rather heavily with pitching.

Now it’s the opposite.

I’d like to see someone emerge, or be added, who’s a top flight pitching prospect.

They have some good candidates, I’m thinking higher than that.

[wolfboy]

I do not.

Boyle's pure stuff beats Abbott's location and pitchability fairly convincingly, IMO.

If you say Boyle's the better prospect, I don't disagree. But to say someone who is walking nearly 8 per 9 is the better pitcher right now then I firmly disagree. Agree with icehole though - if he can figure it out he will be lethal.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If you say Boyle's the better prospect, I don't disagree. But to say someone who is walking nearly 8 per 9 is the better pitcher right now then I firmly disagree. Agree with icehole though - if he can figure it out he will be lethal.

He's also giving up less than four hits per nine.

Put another way, Abbott's High A + AA WHiP is over 1.307. Boyle's High A + AA WHiP is 1.172.

When push comes to shove, I'm guessing Boyle's combination of elite stuff and no-clue-where-it's-going control will turn out more effective than Abbott's pedestrian stuff and just plain poor control.

Tanner Rainey > Reiver Sanmartin

Of course, this particular hot take is completely dependent on an absolute lack of development from this point forward for both pitchers. Abbott strikes me as a very intelligent young man who will figure out his control (and perhaps add a mph or two to his fastball or get some more movement out of it). Boyle, otoh, might be pretty close to a finished product. Then again, he might not. There are enough pitchers who've suddenly figured out how to pitch that were previously buck wild for a decade plus. (Koufax and Randy Johnson spring immediately to mind, as does Nolan Ryan.) In short, I coujld very well be wrong-- and accept that wholeheartedly.

[wolfboy]

He's also giving up less than four hits per nine.

Put another way, Abbott's High A + AA WHiP is over 1.307. Boyle's High A + AA WHiP is 1.172.

When push comes to shove, I'm guessing Boyle's combination of elite stuff and no-clue-where-it's-going control will turn out more effective than Abbott's pedestrian stuff and just plain poor control.

Tanner Rainey > Reiver Sanmartin

Of course, this particular hot take is completely dependent on an absolute lack of development from this point forward for both pitchers. Abbott strikes me as a very intelligent young man who will figure out his control (and perhaps add a mph or two to his fastball or get some more movement out of it). Boyle, otoh, might be pretty close to a finished product. Then again, he might not. There are enough pitchers who've suddenly figured out how to pitch that were previously buck wild for a decade plus. (Koufax and Randy Johnson spring immediately to mind, as does Nolan Ryan.) In short, I coujld very well be wrong-- and accept that wholeheartedly.

Joe Boyle has walked the bases loaded to start the 2nd inning. But tell me more about Abbott's "just plain poor control".

[Old school 1983]

I think Boyle's bullpen-bound, but a guy can dream on those K rates (and the stuff he has in the 5th inning). A Boyle/ Stoudt/ Antone/ Diaz/ Santillan bullpen should be a major strength, capable of shortening games similar to the Nasty Boys of 1990. IMO, Abbott, Bonnin, and Roa all also are likely bullpen guys. (And Hubbart, fwiw.)

The best SP prospect who I think has the best chance to stick is undoudtedly Petty. Second is Williamson. After that, IMO, you have to go down to new Dayton Dragon Javi Rivera.

I think he’s ultimately pen bound too. Just not quite ready to pull the trigger on that transition yet.

[RedTeamGo!]

He's also giving up less than four hits per nine.

Put another way, Abbott's High A + AA WHiP is over 1.307. Boyle's High A + AA WHiP is 1.172.

When push comes to shove, I'm guessing Boyle's combination of elite stuff and no-clue-where-it's-going control will turn out more effective than Abbott's pedestrian stuff and just plain poor control.

Tanner Rainey > Reiver Sanmartin

Of course, this particular hot take is completely dependent on an absolute lack of development from this point forward for both pitchers. Abbott strikes me as a very intelligent young man who will figure out his control (and perhaps add a mph or two to his fastball or get some more movement out of it). Boyle, otoh, might be pretty close to a finished product. Then again, he might not. There are enough pitchers who've suddenly figured out how to pitch that were previously buck wild for a decade plus. (Koufax and Randy Johnson spring immediately to mind, as does Nolan Ryan.) In short, I coujld very well be wrong-- and accept that wholeheartedly.

Right now Boyle is not a pitcher. He’s a thrower. That’s the difference and what wolf boy is saying. If Boyle becomes a pitcher, TOR stuff. But yeah, if I was a kid playing in Dayton I wouldn’t be hanging in tough against Boyle either. Major leaguers don’t play like that though.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Joe Boyle has walked the bases loaded to start the 2nd inning. But tell me more about Abbott's "just plain poor control".

Umm, okay. How about this?

Boyle did indeed walk the bases loaded in the 2nd inning. He ended up giving up one run in that inning total.

That's the only run he's given up in his four innings of no-hit work.

Abbott's last AA start? 3.2 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 K
Boyle tonight (so far): 4 IP, 0 H, 5 BB, 3 K

[wolfboy]

Right now Boyle is not a pitcher. He’s a thrower. That’s the difference and what wolf boy is saying. If Boyle becomes a pitcher, TOR stuff. But yeah, if I was a kid playing in Dayton I wouldn’t be hanging in tough against Boyle either. Major leaguers don’t play like that though.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for saying what I was unable to articulate.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Right now Boyle is not a pitcher. He’s a thrower. That’s the difference and what wolf boy is saying. If Boyle becomes a pitcher, TOR stuff. But yeah, if I was a kid playing in Dayton I wouldn’t be hanging in tough against Boyle either. Major leaguers don’t play like that though.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

Push comes to shove, give me the guy who can "throw" 100+ with a slider that breaks two feet over the guy who can "pitch" a ball that ends up 400 feet away in the seats.

[wolfboy]

Umm, okay. How about this?

Boyle did indeed walk the bases loaded in the 2nd inning. He ended up giving up one run in that inning total.

That's the only run he's given up in his four innings of no-hit work.

Abbott's last AA start? 3.2 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 K
Boyle tonight (so far): 4 IP, 0 H, 5 BB, 3 K

I see your only interest here is in repeatedly doubling down. Have fun!

[Bourgeois Zee]

I see your only interest here is in repeatedly doubling down. Have fun!

[RedTeamGo!]

We'll see what happens, I guess.

Push comes to shove, give me the guy who can "throw" 100+ with a slider that breaks two feet over the guy who can "pitch" a ball that ends up 400 feet away in the seats.

I am happy to have both pitchers in the org.

I think you’re giving up a little early on Abbott, though. He was just drafted last year and has been pretty aggressively promoted.

[RedTeamGo!]

Umm, okay. How about this?

Boyle did indeed walk the bases loaded in the 2nd inning. He ended up giving up one run in that inning total.

That's the only run he's given up in his four innings of no-hit work.

Abbott's last AA start? 3.2 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 K
Boyle tonight (so far): 4 IP, 0 H, 5 BB, 3 K

Boyle’s line is so bizarre. Minor leaguers absolutely cannot hit him. Major leaguers on the other hand are extremely stubborn. I could see him legit going 5 innings in a big league game and having 10 walks easily.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Boyle’s line is so bizarre. Minor leaguers absolutely cannot hit him. Major leaguers on the other hand are extremely stubborn. I could see him legit going 5 innings in a big league game and having 10 walks easily.

If he combines that with zero hits, he'll be serviceable.