2022-23 Euro Soccer Thread

[Betterread]

Dortmund, Real Madrid and ManCity all roll on with 3-0 or 4-1 wins. Reyna (2 assists)and Hazard (1 goal 1 assist) made the most of early first half substitutions to (hopefully) get back on track.

[paintmered]

Chelsea's kind of a mess so far.

And now they've sacked Tuchel.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t really care where it is. He needs to get away from Tuchel who is a disaster and is not far away from being fired and he just needs to play before the World Cup. He can figure out a more permanent solution after December.

I did think he was more than 7 days away from being fired.

[Betterread]

And now they've sacked Tuchel.

Right after a massive spending spree in the summer 2022 transfer window. Multiple ESPN articles say there was a rift between Tuchel and new co-owner and chairman Todd Boehly, who assumed those roles with Abramovich and his team withdrawing from running the club due to Ukrainian war sanctions. This rift prevented Pulisic from going out on loan (Boehly’s decision), and resulted in bringing in Aubameyang and loaning out Lukaku (Tuchel’s decision).
There is a lot of talent on Chelsea, but whoever is the new coach has a lot of messes to sort out to get the team back on track.

[M2]

That is a fairly stunning fall from grace for Tuchel. Good to see that even though Roman is gone, Chelsea is still a revolving door for managers.

RB Leipzig also sacked its manager. Wouldn't shock me if that's where Tuchel lands.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That is a fairly stunning fall from grace for Tuchel. Good to see that even though Roman is gone, Chelsea is still a revolving door for managers.

RB Leipzig also sacked its manager. Wouldn't shock me if that's where Tuchel lands.

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

[M2]

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

Yep. And I think teams burn out quickly when the main directive is to run themselves into the dirt. Legs and brains eventually give out.

[M2]

If you haven't seen the Luka Modric goal from yesterday, here it be - https://twitter.com/brfootball/statu...47994445041673.

What he does with the outside of his boot is unreal.

[Betterread]

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

If you can only keep a job managing elite professionals in any field for only 2 years, the problem is you not them.

[M2]

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

It's a nice trick, but I think Jose Mourinho has demonstrated it has diminishing returns. Teams can't exist for years on end with a siege mentality and eventually new teams see you coming (oh no, this guy). There's got to be joy and growth. Chelsea obviously will take a Champions League title, but I question whether he can drag that out of all that many teams.

On a much smaller scale, I watched former USMNT keeper Brad Friedel try his hand at managing that style in MLS and it was a disaster. He got immediately tuned out. Fans couldn't even stand him. Whole team turned around when Bruce Arena took over. Suddenly they started playing the game instead of pressing until they collapsed.

[Betterread]

If you can only keep a job managing elite professionals in any field for only 2 years, the problem is you not them.

At big clubs, frequent changes of managers is typical and predictable. Ancelotti is an all time great coach and is currently at Real Madrid, and even he has been sacked a few times within a year or two.
Going to back to 2000, looking at teams from different countries and similar payrolls, here are s few examples of the tenures of managers
1. Real Madrid - del Bosque lasted the longest 3 &1/2 yrs, Mourinho lasted 3, everyone else ( Ancelotti, Zidane, Luxembourgo, etc.) lasted 2 yrs or less.
2. Bayern Munich - pep lasted 3 yrs and Omar Hitzfeld lasted 6 yrs in his first run. Everyone else lasted 2 yrs or less (Sagnol, Ancelotti, Van Gaal, Klinsmann, etc)
3. Juventus - Conte lasted 3 yrs, Allegri lasted 5 yrs in his first run, everyone else (ancelotti, Capello, Deschamps)lasted less than 2 yrs.
4. Manchester United - Ferguson was there for 27 yrs until 2013, but since no-one has lasted 3 yrs.
5. Liverpool is the one outlier with Houllier lasting 6 yrs, followed by Benitez for 6 yrs and currently Klopp is nearly at seven years.

[dabvu2498]

If you get a chance to watch Napoli in Serie A play, take it. They have a remarkable new talent - khvicha kvaratskhelia - he is a 21 yr old Georgian player in his first year there and he is the story of Serie A so far with 4 goals in 5 games. Reminds me of Ibra as he is a big guy but with sublime dribbling skills and a very powerful shot.

Call back for this take… Napoli destroying Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool has injury problems, but they also seem to have some energy issues. Not much fire in the belly this far into the season.

[M2]

1. Real Madrid - del Bosque lasted the longest 3 &1/2 yrs, Mourinho lasted 3, everyone else ( Ancelotti, Zidane, Luxembourgo, etc.) lasted 2 yrs or less.

Zidane lasted more than 2 years twice. He basically had a five year run in which he took a short break in the middle. The Carlo-Zidane-Zidane-Carlo run has been an uncommon period of stability for Madrid. I would argue it's served them extremely well and allowed the club to build a culture that delivered a slew of recent trophies. Arguably it started with Mourinho, who (as you noted) lasted three years), though I don't think he left much behind other than a locker room of players glad to see him gone. Yet it was the beginning of relative managerial stability.

Three years in that job can be a long time, so I doubt we'll see anything that matches Liverpool's approach (or Atleti, where El Cholo is basically manager for life), but I feel like Madrid (or at least Florentino Perez) might have actually learned something about less volatility makes for a more focused organization.

[Betterread]

Zidane lasted more than 2 years twice. He basically had a five year run in which he took a short break in the middle. The Carlo-Zidane-Zidane-Carlo run has been an uncommon period of stability for Madrid. I would argue it's served them extremely well and allowed the club to build a culture that delivered a slew of recent trophies. Arguably it started with Mourinho, who (as you noted) lasted three years), though I don't think he left much behind other than a locker room of players glad to see him gone. Yet it was the beginning of relative managerial stability.

Three years in that job can be a long time, so I doubt we'll see anything that matches Liverpool's approach (or Atleti, where El Cholo is basically manager for life), but I feel like Madrid (or at least Florentino Perez) might have actually learned something about less volatility makes for a more focused organization.

Since I summarized and rounded off some numbers, here are clarifications for RM. There were 10 months and two managers in between the two Zidane tenures which were 28 months and 26 months. And Real Madrid have had 17 managers since del Bosque left in 2003.
And just to clarify that my points about short term managers is not meant to imply that I am a big Tuchel fan, nor a Chelsea fan in any way, shape, or form. He’s not one my favorite managers, but he earned my respect with his Chelsea champions league trophy.