Starting pitchers for 2023: sign one & trade for one

[CaiGuy]

Do not give up any prospect in the top 10 for a veteran SP going into 2023. 2023 is a lost season, mortgaging the future in an attempt to assemble an 78 win team is a fool's errand.

Next year is always a year away. If the target year is 2024, then they will need to start building to that this offseason. They won't build everything in one off-season.

That said, I agree completely on not trading away key prospects for short-term vets. But if they sign a few guys with a few years of control, trade for another Grey (Shed who?), and maybe even pick the prospect the like least to do another Bauer-type deal, that would not just be for next year, but the year after.

[Mitri]

If you think next year is already a lost season, Phil Castellini has done his job.

[mth123]

Do not give up any prospect in the top 10 for a veteran SP going into 2023. 2023 is a lost season, mortgaging the future in an attempt to assemble an 78 win team is a fool's errand.

I would hope they would get somebody they could keep for 2 or 3 years. I agree they aren't winning in 2023, but 2024 and 2025 look like the window. If they can get that guy now, do it There aren't any starters coming IMO and the ones they have are far from proven guys.

[herbdizzle]

I'm not really sold on giving big dollars to any of the FA SP on the market this off-season. I kinda figure you have $12 million locked up in Mike Minor. Split his money up to get 1 mid level FA like a Cueto and 1 bounceback #5 type like a Wade Miley.

Hopefully next year you can get at least 400 innings from the Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft trio and 250 FA innings. That'd leave about 200 starter innings to cover from the Dunn/Overton/Cessa etc. group. That could be a competitive rotation with decent health and FA choices.

[WrongVerb]

If you think next year is already a lost season, Phil Castellini has done his job.

Where you gonna go?

[JCM11]

I would hope they would get somebody they could keep for 2 or 3 years. I agree they aren't winning in 2023, but 2024 and 2025 look like the window. If they can get that guy now, do it There aren't any starters coming IMO and the ones they have are far from proven guys.

Exactly, plus some of these prospects that have some shine on them may not look so shinny this time next year. Elly and Collier are off limits, but everyone else should be in play for a good SP with 3 or more years of control.

[RedTeamGo!]

If you think next year is already a lost season, Phil Castellini has done his job.

Not saying I like it, the plan is obviously to wait until after Votto is off the books and trading a quality young player for a short term veteran pitcher would be frankly dumb.

[OesterPoster]

I haven't even attempted to check the contract status of these guys, but this is a list I'd start with for trade candidates. Pitchers with over 60 innings pitched in 2022 so far, sorted by ground ball rate.

[CaiGuy]

I like the idea of German Marquez. He might be able to be had in a salary dump kind of deal, and with only one guaranteed year plus an option it's not a long-term risk. As long as he doesn't cost any real prospects, why not? He could eat some innings and stabilize the bottom of the rotation.

On the FA market, Gibson or Miley could be similar options to take a chance on. Miley has been doing the every-other-year dance for like 6 seasons, so maybe he has one more good one in him. On a one-year deal it could be worth a chance.

It would be risky considering he is on an LTC with an opt-out, but I wonder if DET would sell low on Eduardo Rodriguez.

I know this is a toxic take, but maybe Trevor Bauer will be able to make a comeback?

On the more expensive side, Jameson Taillon would be cool but unlikely.

I think I would go with 2 lower-end, short-term-type vets to fill out the rotation with the 3 youngsters.

The Overton's, Dunn's, and others of their ilk need to be relegated to 6-10 on the SP depth chart, which is still important anyways. But if the are in the top 5, that's trouble for sure.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The Overton's, Dunn's, and others of their ilk need to be relegated to 6-10 on the SP depth chart, which is still important anyways. But if the are in the top 5, that's trouble for sure.

I'm fine about Overton, Cessa (if they keep him), and Dunn having one starting spot between them.

With Williamson, Abbott, Stoudt, Boyle, Roa, and company in AA or AAA, that's defensible and enough depth to not destroy the young guys.

But if that's the plan, they desperately need both a bell weather cow TOR guy and a couple above average bullpen arms to shorten games and protect Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft.

[Big Klu]

I'm fine about Overton, Cessa (if they keep him), and Dunn having one starting spot between them.

With Williamson, Abbott, Stoudt, Boyle, Roa, and company in AA or AAA, that's defensible and enough depth to not destroy the young guys.

But if that's the plan, they desperately need both a bell weather cow TOR guy and a couple above average bullpen arms to shorten games and protect Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft.

Luis Cessa is starting to channel his inner Elmer Dessens as a starter.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing for a club with this many young and inexperienced starting pitchers.

[Old school 1983]

I'm fine about Overton, Cessa (if they keep him), and Dunn having one starting spot between them.

With Williamson, Abbott, Stoudt, Boyle, Roa, and company in AA or AAA, that's defensible and enough depth to not destroy the young guys.

But if that's the plan, they desperately need both a bell weather cow TOR guy and a couple above average bullpen arms to shorten games and protect Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft.

IMO the main goal of this off-season should be to build a good bp that will be in place for the next 2-3 seasons. Those tend to be cheaper to add to than starters and it would protect the 3 younger arms you mentioned while more sorting through the other up and coming arms you mentioned.

[CaiGuy]

I'm fine about Overton, Cessa (if they keep him), and Dunn having one starting spot between them.

With Williamson, Abbott, Stoudt, Boyle, Roa, and company in AA or AAA, that's defensible and enough depth to not destroy the young guys.

But if that's the plan, they desperately need both a bell weather cow TOR guy and a couple above average bullpen arms to shorten games and protect Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft.

I would rather almost all of those guys to the bullpen where they might be more valuable.

Williamson, for example, isn't showing much command even at AA/AAA. He isn't promising as a SP at the moment, but there is always a place in the pen for a lefty with electric stuff...and that spot is wide open on the Reds.

In other words, improving the rotation can improve the bullpen as well. Add at the top of the roster and push guys off the bottom.

[WrongVerb]

I like the idea of German Marquez. He might be able to be had in a salary dump kind of deal, and with only one guaranteed year plus an option it's not a long-term risk. As long as he doesn't cost any real prospects, why not? He could eat some innings and stabilize the bottom of the rotation.

On the FA market, Gibson or Miley could be similar options to take a chance on. Miley has been doing the every-other-year dance for like 6 seasons, so maybe he has one more good one in him. On a one-year deal it could be worth a chance.

It would be risky considering he is on an LTC with an opt-out, but I wonder if DET would sell low on Eduardo Rodriguez.

I know this is a toxic take, but maybe Trevor Bauer will be able to make a comeback?

On the more expensive side, Jameson Taillon would be cool but unlikely.

I think I would go with 2 lower-end, short-term-type vets to fill out the rotation with the 3 youngsters.

The Overton's, Dunn's, and others of their ilk need to be relegated to 6-10 on the SP depth chart, which is still important anyways. But if the are in the top 5, that's trouble for sure.

I thought about Bauer when I started this thread. He may want to be as far from LA and the spotlight as he can get. Cincinnati, where he's had success before, might be that place.

Rodriguez is interesting. More GB than FB. Could be a fit for GABP.

[LeatherPants]

I thought about Bauer when I started this thread. He may want to be as far from LA and the spotlight as he can get. Cincinnati, where he's had success before, might be that place.

Rodriguez is interesting. More GB than FB. Could be a fit for GABP.

Hard no on Trevor Bauer.