I loathe Kevin Newman

[757690]

This idea that if only Farmer were used correctly that his value would skyrocket and contending teams would give up something good for him is based on nothing.

Best case Farmer is as productive against LHP as Solano was last year. The Reds didn’t get a decent offer for Solano at the deadline last year.

Speaking of whom, the could use the money saved from this deal to sign Solano again.

[SomeCallMeTim]

This brings up another positive about this move: John Sadak will get the make the “NEWman” Seinfeld joke significantly more often.

It’s the little things.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I don't know who you're arguing with but I've never said any of that.

If your notion of Farmer's value is what you claim it is, how come no other team pursued him? I think it's pretty clear that the Reds shopped Farmer around before and apparently didn't get an offer they felt was worth it. Why not? Do you understand something about Farmer that no other team understands?

Sixth time:

If used properly, Farmer could garner more than what he just got on the trade market at the trading deadline.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's dishonest.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Which other RH bat sits against LHP? Steer? India? Barrero? You want to find out about these guys, you certainly don't sit them when they have the platoon advantage. If you want to pay $6 Million for a RH caddy for Votto, you're probably the only one.

So by the deadline, he'd get 25 or so starts. That isn't increasing his trade value. I also disagree about his defensive value. He's pretty decent at 3B, adequate at SS, well below average at 2b and completely abandoned catching. The Reds replaced him with a stronger MI defender which is what they need behind these guys right now and with the shift going away.

This is a tempest in a teapot IMO. There are so many other things to hate the Reds ownership and GM for, but this isn't one of them IMO. I think its the right move.

I had to look up Tempest in a Teapot. Thank you for teaching me something today!

[NebraskaRed]

Sixth time:

If used properly, Farmer could garner more than what he just got on the trade market at the trading deadline.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's dishonest.

You literally suggested that I was arguing something I never said. But ok, I'll make sure I don't put words in your mouth.

And that idea about Farmer is based on nothing. You're assuming that no other teams have considered this before, but if somehow the Reds used him just right, all of these lightbulbs would go off over the heads of 29 GMs.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Which other RH bat sits against LHP? Steer? India? Barrero? You want to find out about these guys, you certainly don't sit them when they have the platoon advantage. If you want to pay $6 Million for a RH caddy for Votto, you're probably the only one.

So by the deadline, he'd get 25 or so starts. That isn't increasing his trade value. I also disagree about his defensive value. He's pretty decent at 3B, adequate at SS, well below average at 2b and completely abandoned catching. The Reds replaced him with a stronger MI defender which is what they need behind these guys right now and with the shift going away.

This is a tempest in a teapot IMO. There are so many other things to hate the Reds ownership and GM for, but this isn't one of them IMO. I think its the right move.

We disagree about alot of this. Most of your post assumes all the kids play all the innings. It also (once again) ignores the DH, Votto, slumps, and other positions, defensive metrics (+21 BIS runs/ 1200 innings at 2B indicate he's a helluva lot better than well below average at 2B), playing time, and trade value.

[mth123]

I had to look up Tempest in a Teapot. Thank you for teaching me something today!

Old fart terminology. You're young.

[Bourgeois Zee]

You literally suggested that I was arguing something I never said. But ok, I'll make sure I don't put words in your mouth.

And that idea about Farmer is based on nothing. You're assuming that no other teams have considered this before, but if somehow the Reds used him just right, all of these lightbulbs would go off over the heads of 29 GMs.

Not just talking to you, but you were the one who tried the straw man, so you got the quote.

And I do realize my surmise is based on conjecture, but since yours also was based on it, I assumed it was fine.

My opinion is not, however, what you say it is. (That's another straw man.) We don't know what other teams would have done with Farmer.

We do know that the Dodgers used him as a jack-of-all-trades-- 3B, C, 1B in the majors, but mostly C, 2B, SS, 1B, 3B in the minors-- for a couple of seasons before the Reds acquired him, and he's been the property of the Reds since.

We do know that Farmer hits LH well-- to the tune of an 837 OPS career.

We do know that he grades out as adequate defensively across three IF positions.

Used properly (seventh time now), Farmer could play against southpaws at just about any infield position similarly to how he played with Oklahoma City in 2018.

As to how we might know Farmer could be dealt for more, we'd have to look at his B-R comparables. Two of them show one-for-one deals at about the same age.

- A 34-year-old Tony Graffanino was dealt for Jorge De La Rosa at the trading deadline. De La Rosa went on to be a BOR innings eater for another decade.

- Marco Scutaro was dealt by Boston in the off-season for Clayton Mortensen, a middle relief guy who had a good season before a bad one. Scutaro was later dealt for Charlie Culberson, a guy who's gone on to a ten-year career.

[WrongVerb]

It’s amusing to me the Reds are concerned with some imagined threshold of ‘not horrendous’ but have no concern for being ‘good’.

It's really unfair to players like India and Steer who worked for decades to reach the majors, and they're used so the club can increase another 1% in market value.

[Mitri]

Good god, Kyle Farmer is not a catcher. We can probably put that to rest, no?

[Falls City Beer]

Good god, Kyle Farmer is not a catcher. We can probably put that to rest, no?

Fair enough. Can we also dispense with the canard that this move had to do with anything other than getting cheaper? Not a lateral talent acquisition.

[Mitri]

Fair enough. Can we also dispense with the canard that this move had to do with anything other than getting cheaper? Not a lateral talent acquisition.

Oh, absolutely. Personally I would like to see them just run with the kids and forget Newman altogether. Keep Alejo Lopez for 2B, or whatever.

[757690]

Oh, absolutely. Personally I would like to see them just run with the kids and forget Newman altogether. Keep Alejo Lopez for 2B, or whatever.

The addition of Newman is what tells us this was not just about getting cheaper. If that was the case, they just would have non-tendered Farmer. The fact that they both traded him for a prospect (kinda), and added his replacement who will cost $3M shows that the Reds thought this would improve the team.

We can debate whether it does or not, but I think it’s clear that is what the Reds were thinking.

[Falls City Beer]

The addition of Newman is what tells us this was not just about getting cheaper. If that was the case, they just would have non-tendered Farmer. The fact that they both traded him for a prospect (kinda), and added his replacement who will cost $3M shows that the Reds thought this would improve the team.

We can debate whether it does or not, but I think it’s clear that is what the Reds were thinking.

No it’s like mth said. It’s just a cheaper insurance policy. If the Reds weren’t required to fill a roster to capacity, they wouldn’t. But even the cheapest insurance policies have a cost.

[757690]

No it’s like mth said. It’s just a cheaper insurance policy. If the Reds weren’t required to fill a roster to capacity, they wouldn’t. But even the cheapest insurance policies have a cost.

As Mitri said, Newman is redundant. They already have Barrero and Reynolds to fill that roster spot. The Reds committed $3M they didn’t have to to get Newman. They clearly think he improved the team. This was not only about getting cheaper.