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Thread: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

  1. #61
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    It's not PR-- it's the actions that are reprehensible.

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  4. #62
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    It's not PR-- it's the actions that are reprehensible.
    These are better actions than the ones this team took in 2015-19. Very similar actions to the ones that the Brewers, Guardians, Rays, and any other rebuilding team take.

    It’s the PR that is making everyone hate the team. There are ways to sell a rebuild to the fans. Tell them they have no other options is not one of those ways.
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  5. #63
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    These are better actions than the ones this team took in 2015-19. Very similar actions to the ones that the Brewers, Guardians, Rays, and any other rebuilding team take.

    It’s the PR that is making everyone hate the team. There are ways to sell a rebuild to the fans. Tell them they have no other options is not one of those ways.
    This organization is rudderless. From top to bottom. They have done nothing but flail in every attempt to act. Why on earth should we trust this same ownership group to figure out what they’ve been godawful at for 15 years?

    But yeah, it’s probably just the mouthpieces of the organization.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

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  7. #64
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This organization is rudderless. From top to bottom. They have done nothing but flail in every attempt to act. Why on earth should we trust this same ownership group to figure out what they’ve been godawful at for 15 years?

    But yeah, it’s probably just the mouthpieces of the organization.
    They have executed a classic rebuild. They have moved all the big contracts that they could. They have re-stocked the farm system to being one of the top 5 in MLB, mostly through excellent trades. They have become significantly younger at the MLB level. They have created a massive amount of payflex for 2024 and beyond.

    It’s hard to find a rebuild in recent history that has been so well executed. The Reds are in the perfect position to become competitive for years. The question is if they can continue and do the hard part, which is to build a competitive team from this position. All the pieces are there, if they fail, they will have no one else but themselves to blame.

    Their biggest problem is that on opening day last year, the owner told the fans to go “f” themselves. So from now on, it doesn’t matter what they do, everyone is going to hate it and continue to hate this team.
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  9. #65
    Member RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    What should trouble ownership the most is I DON'T CARE. Outside of Marge's ownership years, I made a trek back from Montana every year to catch a couple games. Not the last two tears and I won't change my mind until ownership either sells or act like they care.

    When they lose a diehard fan like me, they're In trouble.
    Last edited by RedsfaninMT; 12-02-2022 at 10:01 AM.

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  11. #66
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    These are better actions than the ones this team took in 2015-19.
    Nope.

    They chose to trade an All-Star for prospects. Twice. Three times, if you count Eugenio Suarez. They chose to release Miley. They chose to deal Gray.

    This despite the fact that they had the cash they could have spent to make that team competitive.

    On top of that, this off-season, they've further made their team worse despite the fact that tanking for better draft picks is much more circumspect than before the latest CBA.

    In short, you assume these are baseball moves, and it's obvious that they're not. They don't care about baseball. They don't care about the team they own. And they damn sure don't care about the fans. These are moves to make ownership more money.

    Again, reprehensible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Their biggest problem is that on opening day last year, the owner told the fans to go “f” themselves. So from now on, it doesn’t matter what they do, everyone is going to hate it and continue to hate this team.
    This is perhaps the most egregiously bad take ever written on this site.

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  13. #67
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Nope.

    They chose to trade an All-Star for prospects. Twice. Three times, if you count Eugenio Suarez. They chose to release Miley. They chose to deal Gray.

    This despite the fact that they had the cash they could have spent to make that team competitive.

    On top of that, this off-season, they've further made their team worse despite the fact that tanking for better draft picks is much more circumspect than before the latest CBA.

    In short, you assume these are baseball moves, and it's obvious that they're not. They don't care about baseball. They don't care about the team they own. And they damn sure don't care about the fans. These are moves to make ownership more money.

    Again, reprehensible.

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    This is perhaps the most egregiously bad take ever written on this site.
    This entire post proves my “most egregious bad take” to the fullest. Oh, the irony.
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  14. #68
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Nope.

    They chose to trade an All-Star for prospects. Twice.

    This despite the fact that they had the cash they could have spent to make that team competitive.
    What’s fascinating about this post is that this exactly describes what the Reds did in 2015. Except in 2015, they didn’t even try to get good prospects in return. Those trades were disasters from the second they were made. At least in this rebuild, the Reds acquired top tier prospects during it.

    In other words, these are better actions than the one the team took in 2015.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769023

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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Lick the lollipop of mediocrity once and you suck forever.

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  17. #70
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    What’s fascinating about this post is that this exactly describes what the Reds did in 2015. Except in 2015, they didn’t even try to get good prospects in return. Those trades were disasters from the second they were made. At least in this rebuild, the Reds acquired top tier prospects during it.

    In other words, these are better actions than the one the team took in 2015.
    Sigh.

    No.

    Again.

    This is not a baseball decision. It's a fiscal one.

    With Disney, media rights, revenue sharing, and other assorted revenues, the Reds have much more capital now than they did in 2015. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M more. The 2015 salaries were largely the same as they are now-- which means today's baseball dollar goes farther. The Reds, then, have more money to buy more player in order to compete... if they want.

    They choose not to.

    It is not, however much you try to make it, a baseball decision. The Reds are not doing this to make their team better in the future. This is not, as much as you try to frame it, "rebuilding." They're doing this to make money now and in the future. The plan is to milk as much as possible from John Q. Public in any way possible, cry poor, and get more. Perpetually.

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  19. #71
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Sigh.

    No.

    Again.

    This is not a baseball decision. It's a fiscal one.

    With Disney, media rights, revenue sharing, and other assorted revenues, the Reds have much more capital now than they did in 2015. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M more. The 2015 salaries were largely the same as they are now-- which means today's baseball dollar goes farther. The Reds, then, have more money to buy more player in order to compete... if they want.

    They choose not to.

    It is not, however much you try to make it, a baseball decision. The Reds are not doing this to make their team better in the future. This is not, as much as you try to frame it, "rebuilding." They're doing this to make money now and in the future. The plan is to milk as much as possible from John Q. Public in any way possible, cry poor, and get more. Perpetually.
    All rebuilds are both financial and baseball decisions.

    If one were to look at the Reds’ actions objectively, and the result of these actions, without ever hearing what Phil and the front office said about them, it’s easy to see the baseball side of them. If one also heard what Phil and the front office said about them, it’s easy to only see the business side of them and ignore the baseball side of them.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769023

  20. #72
    Member OldFashionedRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Probably $80 million, at most, with $43 million of it going to Votto and Moose.
    I beg Votto to ride off into the sunset.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

  21. #73
    Member OldFashionedRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    meh, in a couple years they can be traded to contenders while making tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. I really do not feel bad for them, its not like they are Reds fans.

    The people this is unfair to is the fans.

    I am at a point where I am really losing interest, and I am as die hard as they come. The ownership of this team has ruined this once proud franchise. It is just sad.

    The saddest part is there is no hope with the franchise overall. We know MLB will not step in and force the team to be sold and whatnot. They allow the Pirates to be the Pirates, so of course they are going to allow what is going on with the Reds to happen. Why waste my time and money on something that it's sole purpose of existing is to make money for a dozen 70 year old men that are already ultra wealthy? I am having a hard time seeing the point.
    Well said. They're part and parcel to this. The players aren't on the Reds because they love the Reds. They're there to make a paycheck, and they'll happily go somewhere else to make more. If Votto hadn't signed that last contract he would have done it on some other team.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why can't MLB have something in place like the NFL? I'd much rather have parity than never be able to compete.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

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  23. #74
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    The boys and I on here deserve better.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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  25. #75
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    Re: 2023 Payroll Much Lower Than $114M On Opening Day 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    It's not PR-- it's the actions that are reprehensible.
    It’s both. Obviously the actions are reprehensible, it’s just kind of amazing that they say these things in public. It makes them look cheap AND dumb.

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