Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 183

Thread: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

  1. #61
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    20,208

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    People writing off EDLC already. Good grief.
    What would you say.....ya do here?


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    7,430

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Future Reds prospect deemed a failure at age 4. "I saw video of the kid in his backyard. He could barely pick up the plastic bat. Then he got distracted by a dog. Reds need to move on," a fan posted.

  4. Likes:

    757690 (01-26-2023),Bourgeois Zee (01-26-2023),Chip R (01-26-2023),Edd Roush (01-27-2023),RedTeamGo! (01-26-2023),Roy Tucker (01-26-2023)

  5. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,933

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    I've said it before, but Barrero was the darling of the Reds farm system at the end of 2021. Everybody was talking about him. At mid-season 2021, Barrero was ranked #33 on the MLB Top 100 prospect list. So it wasn't just Reds scouts hyping him, but national pundits were noticing Barrero. However, another name also cropped up on the prospect radar in 2021 ... Ely de La Cruz.

    Coming into spring training 2022, Barrero gets hurt and misses all of spring training and sent for rehab in late May to Louisville. That really began Barrero's "spring training". He'd not seen live pitching in almost nine months. You don't expect Barrero to show up dialed in against pitchers in mid-summer form, when he hasn't faced live game-speed pitching in nine months. It's going to take him a few weeks to catch up.

    But by then, Barrero has been pushed aside as an afterthought, and EDLC suddenly has become the darling of the Reds farm system, and the national media. To make matters worse, EDLC is a SS - the same position as Barrero. Its obvious that Barrero was still trying to recover from his hammate injury all year, and him chasing pitches out of the zone was most likely due to aggressiveness, trying to show everybody that he could be just as exciting and could hit a baseball as far as EDLC could.

    I guess what amazes me is how quickly folks are willing to write off Barrero over his four months of poor baseball in 2022, most of which he was rehabbing from an injury that usually takes twelve months to completely heal.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

  6. Likes:

    mth123 (01-26-2023),Ron Madden (01-26-2023)

  7. #64
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    21,732

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    I think it is too early to give up on Jose Barrero
    after just 93 major league games and 282 big league AB's

  8. Likes:

    Chip R (01-26-2023),mth123 (01-26-2023)

  9. #65
    Member RustyJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    618

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I guess what amazes me is how quickly folks are willing to write off Barrero over his four months of poor baseball in 2022, most of which he was rehabbing from an injury that usually takes twelve months to completely heal.
    I get it to some extent, if he was a more exceptional talent, I think it would’ve punched through the adversity more than we’ve seen. But whatever he is, now’s the time to find out. All this “why not put him in AA if he can’t hit AAA stuff” is weird. Like just release the guy if you think he’s actually that horrible.

  10. #66
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    20,208

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Barrero was never called "perhaps the most athletic baseball player in the world" like EDLC.

    I don't know what to say to folks, these players are just not the same.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  11. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,933

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Barrero was never called "perhaps the most athletic baseball player in the world" like EDLC.

    I don't know what to say to folks, these players are just not the same.
    No, they’re not the same athlete. But Barrero has 425+ AB’s in AAA, half of which came during rehab for a major injury. He still has a .790 OBS. That’s not shabby, and he deserves a chance to be the starter at SS.

    This is Barrero’s year to reassert himself. But he needs to do it without the added pressure of hearing EDLC’s footsteps bearing down on him.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

  12. #68
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    20,208

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    No, they’re not the same athlete. But Barrero has 425+ AB’s in AAA, half of which came during rehab for a major injury. He still has a .790 OBS. That’s not shabby, and he deserves a chance to be the starter at SS.

    This is Barrero’s year to reassert himself. But he needs to do it without the added pressure of hearing EDLC’s footsteps bearing down on him.
    Why should Barrero be entitled to anything? If EDLC is knocking the door down, who gives a crap? Barrero at this point has a ceiling of a serviceable major league player. EDLC has a ceiling of superstar. Barrero means nothing in comparison.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  13. #69
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    56,993

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Nobody on the Reds is "entitled" to anything at this juncture

  14. Likes:

    cumberlandreds (01-27-2023),dubc47834 (01-27-2023),Revering4Blue (01-27-2023)

  15. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,222

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What are you talking about? In your earlier post you said he should be the SS. I said he's already been moved off of SS.

    Now you are saying he won't be moved off 3B. I never said he couldn't handle 3B, just that I think 3B is probably India very soon and Collier longer term. There are other options like Steer, McLain, CES etc for 3B. The Reds have nothing in the OF. Marte in RF makes a lot of sense IMO.
    I mistyped this "I am not sure where the Marte move off of 3B is coming from he only player there during the Arizona Fall league. He only player SS during the minor league season."
    I am not sure where the Marte move off of SS to 3B is coming from he only player 3B during the Arizona Fall league. He only player SS during the regular minor league season.
    That is why I think of him as the best future SS for the Reds.

  16. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,222

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    People writing off EDLC already. Good grief.
    Not being gogo gaga over him is not writing him. The truth is there is little precedent for a player striking out 30+ percent at the A+ and AA and becoming successful MLB hitters. So I am realistically not counting on him to be an impact player.

  17. #72
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,222

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I've said it before, but Barrero was the darling of the Reds farm system at the end of 2021. Everybody was talking about him. At mid-season 2021, Barrero was ranked #33 on the MLB Top 100 prospect list. So it wasn't just Reds scouts hyping him, but national pundits were noticing Barrero. However, another name also cropped up on the prospect radar in 2021 ... Ely de La Cruz.

    Coming into spring training 2022, Barrero gets hurt and misses all of spring training and sent for rehab in late May to Louisville. That really began Barrero's "spring training". He'd not seen live pitching in almost nine months. You don't expect Barrero to show up dialed in against pitchers in mid-summer form, when he hasn't faced live game-speed pitching in nine months. It's going to take him a few weeks to catch up.

    But by then, Barrero has been pushed aside as an afterthought, and EDLC suddenly has become the darling of the Reds farm system, and the national media. To make matters worse, EDLC is a SS - the same position as Barrero. Its obvious that Barrero was still trying to recover from his hammate injury all year, and him chasing pitches out of the zone was most likely due to aggressiveness, trying to show everybody that he could be just as exciting and could hit a baseball as far as EDLC could.

    I guess what amazes me is how quickly folks are willing to write off Barrero over his four months of poor baseball in 2022, most of which he was rehabbing from an injury that usually takes twelve months to completely heal.
    Hamate bones injury do not affect your plate discipline for one the injury is just an excuse to explain poor play still get that with Senzel. I show where is plate discipline was before the injury. Also Barrero only had one good year as a hitter in the minors. he can hit the fastball very well which covers up alot of his flaws in the minors.

    Even after first month in the minors he still struggled and it was worse at MLB level.

  18. #73
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    20,208

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneinthBrame View Post
    Not being gogo gaga over him is not writing him. The truth is there is little precedent for a player striking out 30+ percent at the A+ and AA and becoming successful MLB hitters. So I am realistically not counting on him to be an impact player.
    FYI EDLC has the same hitting issues which is why I am highly concerned by him. It is why I think Marte is the SS of the future.
    "highly concerned" and saying he isn't the SS of the future seems about as definitive as it gets, but whatever.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  19. #74
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,758

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Barrero in the minors:
    2018 - A - 3.7% BB 21.7% K 81 RC+
    2019 - A+ - 5.5% BB 18.4% K 131 RC+
    2020 - No Minor League Season
    2021 - AA - 8.9% BB 22.2% K 135 RC+
    2021 - AAA - 10% BB 22.0% K 158 RC+
    2022 - AAA - 4.6% BB 37.6% K 66 RC+

    His plate discipline and overall production seemed to be steadily improving as he developed but then something went terribly wrong in 2022. We know he injured his hamate in March. Could it be that AAA "got the book"? Maybe. A combination? Maybe. Being straight up with you, the assuredness with which you speak on it makes it feel hot take-y.

    There is no doubt he has been absolutely dreadful in MLB. I'd rather not have the semantical argument of excuses/explanations but in 2020, he was making the leap directly from A+ (with some time at the alt site). That is a monumental task to ask of anyone. 2021 he was bad. No notes. 2022 was the hamate recovery. He's a fascinating case and one where I don't think either side (optimistic or pessimistic) are out of line. I just don't see how anyone can be super confident in either opinion.

  20. Likes:

    Ron Madden (01-27-2023)

  21. #75
    Member mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    31,928

    Re: Votto On His Return From Shoulder Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneinthBrame View Post
    I mistyped this "I am not sure where the Marte move off of 3B is coming from he only player there during the Arizona Fall league. He only player SS during the minor league season."
    I am not sure where the Marte move off of SS to 3B is coming from he only player 3B during the Arizona Fall league. He only player SS during the regular minor league season.
    That is why I think of him as the best future SS for the Reds.
    I don't think the plan is for him to play SS this year. I've seen a few of the national folks, who may or may not know what they are talking about, say they don't think he'll be able to stick at SS in the big leagues.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator