Reds Remain In Slow Burn of Their Rebuild

[MoneyInTheBank]

This cheap ownership just had the highest payroll in team history and apparently that wasn't enough for most fans. It led to zero runs in the playoffs in 2020 and a huge choke down the stretch in 2021. The Reds decided to blow it up and start over and the fans want them to add even more pieces. The players blew it, the window has closed, but the fans want those same players to remain on the team...why?? They had their chance and were given everything they needed and could not get it done. Its time to move onto this new group of young players or move on as a fan. The same fan narrative is getting stale, the Reds are trying to set up this franchise to compete for a decade, not go all in for a year or two...all just my opinion and I have been through the season of 1982, it could be a lot worse...believe me.

The Reds have ~$70M committed right now to the roster and the GM telling any microphone in front of him there's not much left to spend. There is ZERO justification for the Cincinnati Reds to have a payroll south of $100M. ZERO.

[Coopdaddy67]

I'm nearing the point where I just don't care anymore.

It's like the Reds are now owned and operated by the 1990s version of Mike Brown.

[missionhockey21]

This cheap ownership just had the highest payroll in team history and apparently that wasn't enough for most fans. It led to zero runs in the playoffs in 2020 and a huge choke down the stretch in 2021. The Reds decided to blow it up and start over and the fans want them to add even more pieces. The players blew it, the window has closed, but the fans want those same players to remain on the team...why?? They had their chance and were given everything they needed and could not get it done. Its time to move onto this new group of young players or move on as a fan. The same fan narrative is getting stale, the Reds are trying to set up this franchise to compete for a decade, not go all in for a year or two...all just my opinion and I have been through the season of 1982, it could be a lot worse...believe me.

Let's be real.

2020 was a choke job. It happens. It also happened in a shortened season, with Covid, and that was all we got of the Reds peak talent build.

What do the Reds do? Lose their ace to free agency (argue his character sure, but the Reds did zilch to replace his production). Give away their closer. Do nothing of substance to move ahead, instead regress in talent. That's not commitment, that's giving up without giving up, a Reds classic. 2021 could have been a year if the Reds shored up the bullpen and added depth, which they didn't do.

What have the Phils done? Continued to add talent, year after year. Bring in one of the better GM's in the game. Show their fans they want a World Series.

Have we heard of the Reds investing in a big way in their scouting and analytics departments? Snatch away top tier instructors from other organizations? No. We just have Krall making some okay to great trades. But if we think we are organizationally at the level of the Dodgers or Astros, we are not. Nor the Rays or the Guardians at the low end.

The Reds want to show they are serious? Great. Show us how much they are investing in the organizational strength of advanced scouting, analytics, and on-field instructors. Show that the money is going into building a world-class operation that will be sustainable. All I see is promoting from within and hearing of positions largely being condensed, the exception being is the hitting instruction which does have a higher head count but the hires on paper are questionable given what we know.

Not that they think they have an original idea of building from within and that is their advantage. Because the Dodgers do that and spend hundreds of millions. The Rays have been churning top talent for years without a ring to show for it. The Reds need to spend to make it, both on the field and behind the scenes, and the fans should expect it. They will always be at a disadvantage to the big boys of the world, but how much will depend on how little they invest.

[Bourgeois Zee]

A Reds' ownership group that pockets a cool $200M but provides the "highest payroll in Red history" isn't really proving what you think it's proving, #13.

[RedsBrick]

I can't imagine why people would buy season tickets or any package they offer. I guess I can see why people might go to individual games for the one-off day of entertainment, but I could think of a thousand ways to spend my money before thinking about a Reds' game.

[MikeS21]

You know who doesn't think in terms of "windows?" St. Louis Cardinals and Milwaukee Brewers. They go after it every year. That's all we want from the Reds.

When your main competition is the Reds, Pirates, and Cubs, I'm not sure that going "after it every year" is all that hard.

That's what the Reds ownership seems to be oblivious to. They really don't need to spend $150+ million in order to win the NL Central division. They can spend $120-$125 million and probably still win the division, if they spend it wisely on the right players. I'm talking WIN the division ... not settle for a Wild Card spot.

I'm convinced that even if this team had a $200 million payroll, they'd still be laughingstocks because they would wasting money on veteran players who would produce no better than younger cheaper players. If they truly want to improve the team, they already have carved so much from the payroll, they could offer Aaron Judge a 6 year $180 million deal to play RF for the next six years. He may take it, and he may not (I think he's looking for a much longer deal and I'd avoid like the plague paying him past his age 36 season). But he is the caliber player the team needs and at least it shows your fan base that you have a pulse.

[Redsfan6272]

i am curious how Krall can fix the offense spending cheaply knowing that good players that are asked to play for a Losing team are going to be asking for more money to play for the Reds.. I would take less to play on a winner..I HATE losing and i would never accept it as its ok to loose mentality ....

[Redsfan6272]

When your main competition is the Reds, Pirates, and Cubs, I'm not sure that going "after it every year" is all that hard.

That's what the Reds ownership seems to be oblivious to. They really don't need to spend $150+ million in order to win the NL Central division. They can spend $120-$125 million and probably still win the division, if they spend it wisely on the right players. I'm talking WIN the division ... not settle for a Wild Card spot.

I'm convinced that even if this team had a $200 million payroll, they'd still be laughingstocks because they would wasting money on veteran players who would produce no better than younger cheaper players. If they truly want to improve the team, they already have carved so much from the payroll, they could offer Aaron Judge a 6 year $180 million deal to play RF for the next six years. He may take it, and he may not (I think he's looking for a much longer deal and I'd avoid like the plague paying him past his age 36 season). But he is the caliber player the team needs and at least it shows your fan base that you have a pulse.

The front office hasn't, that i know of, even shared a plan to ever win anything... Just cut costs and pocket the revenue...Winning is not on their list.. Beat writers don't even question them on that they would be hammered in St Louis, LA, NY Etc... but here, they care more about their free food at the ballpark

The Cardinals have 16 of 17 winning seasons.. Thats why they get 3 million fans. Reds fans get excuses and Hope and Fate, but dont expect the front office to fix anything

[Kc61]

The front office hasn't, that i know of, even shared a plan to ever win anything... Just cut costs and pocket the revenue...Winning is not on their list.. Beat writers don't even question them on that they would be hammered in St Louis, LA, NY Etc... but here, they care more about their free food at the ballpark

Very good point. In the last rebuild, Dick Williams made clear that he intended to “add” (his word). He even said the resources would be there. I remember the interview distinctly.

And they did add with the spending spree on Castellanos, Moose, and Shogo.

This time, I haven’t heard anything of the kind. Maybe they are just being close to the vest. Or maybe Reds intend a long-term pre-arb youth strategy to the exclusion of much else.

[Kc61]

This cheap ownership just had the highest payroll in team history and apparently that wasn't enough for most fans. It led to zero runs in the playoffs in 2020 and a huge choke down the stretch in 2021. The Reds decided to blow it up and start over and the fans want them to add even more pieces. The players blew it, the window has closed, but the fans want those same players to remain on the team...why?? They had their chance and were given everything they needed and could not get it done. Its time to move onto this new group of young players or move on as a fan. The same fan narrative is getting stale, the Reds are trying to set up this franchise to compete for a decade, not go all in for a year or two...all just my opinion and I have been through the season of 1982, it could be a lot worse...believe me.

This most recent window was a 60-day mini-season in 2020 and full season in 2021. That’s it.

And now it’s back to 90+ losses.

That’s not much of a window and rebuilding has become the norm for the Reds. They can tell us about the future, but I’ve seen many Reds futures. I have trouble putting faith in Reds futures.

[Roy Tucker]

I try hard to be rational. I will give kudos to the Reds for this past seasons trades to replenish the farm system. However, I will make the comment that it was an organizational fail that their farm system needed it. They had to burn up MLB talent to do so.

And we’ll see how the winter meeting go. But initial indications are a lot of lethargy and watching the grass grow. I want to see some aggression and urgency in their rebuild. They act like they have all the time in the world to grow the club. But the more weeks and months that click by with glacial improvement, the more there are silent departures of one-time fans. I just hate the Reds’ lack of urgency.

So much for being rational. I tried. Oh, and I had season tickets in 1982.

[MikeS21]

Honestly, I could care less if the payroll is >$100 million. To me, with this organization's current scouting, development, and talent evaluation, spending more money is akin to BobC going up to the 10th floor of a high-rise in downtown Cincy, opening the window and tossing out a barrel filled with $50 million dollars and letting the money float to the ground. It might make a few people happy, but it won't improve the team one iota.

I agree with missionhockey21's post above. If you are not going to spend on payroll, at the very least, spend it to build a self-sustaining system of choosing quality draft picks and developing them into major league players. It does no good to have a highly ranked farm system, loved by all the gurus, if you can't develop them properly.

And the Reds need to quit pointing to Hunter Greene and Jonathan India as "proof" that they are on the right track. Greene can dial up the radar gun to triple digits, but until he cuts down the HR's and figures out how to throw a decent change, he may be better suited for the bullpen ... provided his arm doesn't self destruct first. And India, after a very unimpressive minor league career, came out of nowhere to win the ROY ... only to promptly disappear back into nowhere in his second year. Which one is the real Jonathan India? Seems to me, after several years of teardown torment, we still are looking mostly at hype rather than any signs of a competent rebuild.

[HokieRed]

I hope we take somebody in the Rule 5 draft so that at least we have something new to kick the FO around for.

[JCM11]

And the Reds need to quit pointing to Hunter Greene and Jonathan India as "proof" that they are on the right track. Greene can dial up the radar gun to triple digits, but until he cuts down the HR's and figures out how to throw a decent change, he may be better suited for the bullpen ... provided his arm doesn't self destruct first.

There are plenty of ways to bash the Reds without this much of a reach.

Greene's last 6 starts of the year: 1.02 ERA with 51 SO to 8 BB with 1 HR allowed. Quick move him to the pen lol.

[MikeS21]

There are plenty of ways to bash the Reds without this much of a reach.

Greene's last 6 starts of the year: 1.02 ERA with 51 SO to 8 BB with 1 HR allowed. Quick move him to the pen lol.

What about the six starts before that? And before that? It’s easy to pick out a stretch of good outings. But which one is the real Hunter Greene?