Reds post-season transactions 2022-23 Part Two

[HokieRed]

I like the Vosler pickup--no risk involved, might get a competent left handed bat. He's as likely to be helpful as most of the LH infield FA's left (though I'd have preferred David Peralta or Tyler Naquin). I'm not sure Vosler makes the opening day roster though unless either Senzel or Votto can't go (or both). Pinder I think makes the roster for sure. My guess is the five spots go to Friedl, Pinder, Newman, Senzel (if he's healthy), and one of Solak or Vosler.

[klw]

Krall out here playing 3D chess

He should let the wookie win.

[schroomytunes]

For me the 5 are:

Pinder, TJFriedl, Vosler, Newman, and Barrero.

Vosler will be that guy shuttled back and forth most of the year, the other 4 will be with the club most of the year I'd imagine

[JFLegal]

if we're picking up kennys from the mexican league, how about kenny powers?

[NebraskaRed]

I know this is a case of lowered expectations, but the Reds have made a number of moves that aren't amazing, aren't great, aren't moving the needle much, but not head-scratching puzzlers either.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I know this is a case of lowered expectations, but the Reds have made a number of moves that aren't amazing, aren't great, aren't moving the needle much, but not head-scratching puzzlers either.

Agreed.

These types of moves are defensible. They make sense in a micro- and macro level. But they're not accomplishing much, are they?

This is part of the reason why ownership's penury is so frustrating. Krall seems to have an affinity for making decent, low-risk moves. Unfortunately, he needs to make much bigger moves for the team to compete.

[JFLegal]

it's still so foolish for the reds to not add another starting pitcher. do they really think greene, lodolo and ashcraft are all going to make it through the season healthy? and pitching effectively? that would defy the odds big time. adding another starter would also take some of the pressure off the young arms. but our front office is too dumb and/or cheap to understand this.

this team will win 70 games max. and i'm being kind. it's a shame because this is the time of year i usually get very excited about reds baseball. not this year. the only question is who will finish in 4th place in the nl central: the reds or pirates?

[HokieRed]

Agreed.

These types of moves are defensible. They make sense in a micro- and macro level. But they're not accomplishing much, are they?

This is part of the reason why ownership's penury is so frustrating. Krall seems to have an affinity for making decent, low-risk moves. Unfortunately, he needs to make much bigger moves for the team to compete.

I agree with you about the defensibility of these moves but not about Krall's not being one to make big moves. Last year he made a number of enormous moves--probably the biggest series of moves I've ever seen a Reds GM make in a single year--and RZ hated them. Moved Barnhart, Miley, Gray, Winker, Suarez, Akiyama, Mahle, Castillo--not even to mention the more peripheral players here. And now this year--hallelujah!--Moustakas. This guy is not hesitant about making big moves.

[Kc61]

it's still so foolish for the reds to not add another starting pitcher. do they really think greene, lodolo and ashcraft are all going to make it through the season healthy? and pitching effectively? that would defy the odds big time. adding another starter would also take some of the pressure off the young arms. but our front office is too dumb and/or cheap to understand this.

this team will win 70 games max. and i'm being kind. it's a shame because this is the time of year i usually get very excited about reds baseball. not this year. the only question is who will finish in 4th place in the nl central: the reds or pirates?

I can see the Reds’ point on this, though certainly your argument is strong.

Most inexpensive starters don’t add that many innings in today’s game. Why spend on one who might average 4+ innings? Luis Cessa in ten starts last year was pretty good, not sure you’ll do better without meaningful spending.

To fill out the rotation and depth Reds have the usual types, Dunn, Weaver, Overton, high risk guys. The goal though is to bring along Williamson and Stoudt and perhaps others over the season.

Point being, unless you’re willing to spend meaningfully, Reds already have the types of pitchers they are likely to acquire. I’m not too surprised at their judgment on this.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I agree with you about the defensibility of these moves but not about Krall's not being one to make big moves. Last year he made a number of enormous moves--probably the biggest series of moves I've ever seen a Reds GM make in a single year--and RZ hated them. Moved Barnhart, Miley, Gray, Winker, Suarez, Akiyama, Mahle, Castillo--not even to mention the more peripheral players here. And now this year--hallelujah!--Moustakas. This guy is not hesitant about making big moves.

Big moves, as in improving the club. Not destroying it in order to save ownership millions.

- - - Updated - - -

it's still so foolish for the reds to not add another starting pitcher. do they really think greene, lodolo and ashcraft are all going to make it through the season healthy? and pitching effectively? that would defy the odds big time. adding another starter would also take some of the pressure off the young arms. but our front office is too dumb and/or cheap to understand this.

this team will win 70 games max. and i'm being kind. it's a shame because this is the time of year i usually get very excited about reds baseball. not this year. the only question is who will finish in 4th place in the nl central: the reds or pirates?

Expecting young pitchers to stay relatively healthy is defying the odds?

How so?

[lollipopcurve]

I agree with you about the defensibility of these moves but not about Krall's not being one to make big moves. Last year he made a number of enormous moves--probably the biggest series of moves I've ever seen a Reds GM make in a single year--and RZ hated them. Moved Barnhart, Miley, Gray, Winker, Suarez, Akiyama, Mahle, Castillo--not even to mention the more peripheral players here. And now this year--hallelujah!--Moustakas. This guy is not hesitant about making big moves.

Agreed, and I was uncertain going into the year if Krall would have the independence and/or the courage to do anything other than tinker on the margins. As it turns out, they've given him and his front office team the freedom to trade guys before the last minute, release guys who are sunk costs and churn the roster aggressively. All in the service of what appears to be a wholesale shift towards greater efficiency and bottom-up team building. It appears they've gotten ownership to back off and let the baseball ops people do baseball ops things. Pleasantly surprised, even if it means the big league club spins its wheels for a bit.

[westofyou]

Agreed, and I was uncertain going into the year if Krall would have the independence and/or the courage to do anything other than tinker on the margins. As it turns out, they've given him and his front office team the freedom to trade guys before the last minute, release guys who are sunk costs and churn the roster aggressively. All in the service of what appears to be a wholesale shift towards greater efficiency and bottom-up team building. It appears they've gotten ownership to back off and let the baseball ops people do baseball ops things. Pleasantly surprised, even if it means the big league club spins its wheels for a bit.

That's because they are shedding payroll and signing contracts that are boilerplate numbers. My bet is if they were to "spend" money there would be more fingerprints on the deal from non baseball people

[JCM11]

Agreed.

These types of moves are defensible. They make sense in a micro- and macro level. But they're not accomplishing much, are they?

This is part of the reason why ownership's penury is so frustrating. Krall seems to have an affinity for making decent, low-risk moves. Unfortunately, he needs to make much bigger moves for the team to compete.

It's hard to make bigger moves when you're only allowed to spend 10 million in an off season. The only way the Reds in their current form could add substantial talent to the MLB roster would be to trade some of their top prospects for MLB ready players. It'll be interesting to see what they do when Moose and Votto are off the books. My guess is a sub 70 million dollar payroll with minimal additions other than hoping prospects develop. I would like to see them pull off a trade or two for proven SP, but they seem to be in a holding pattern this off season.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I can see the Reds’ point on this, though certainly your argument is strong.

Most inexpensive starters don’t add that many innings in today’s game. Why spend on one who might average 4+ innings? Luis Cessa in ten starts last year was pretty good, not sure you’ll do better without meaningful spending.

To fill out the rotation and depth Reds have the usual types, Dunn, Weaver, Overton, high risk guys. The goal though is to bring along Williamson and Stoudt and perhaps others over the season.

Point being, unless you’re willing to spend meaningfully, Reds already have the types of pitchers they are likely to acquire. I’m not too surprised at their judgment on this.

Good point here.

5th starters/ Depth pieces include:

- Luke Weaver
- Connor Overton
- James Dunn
- Casey Legumina
- Levi Stoudt
- Brandon Williamson
- Ben Lively
- Kevin Herget

Most of those aren't going to be good, but there are at least a lot of them.

[HokieRed]

Comparing Luis Cessa to, say, Chris Archer overlooks a lot of history. Cessa has never thrown more than 80 innings in a season; Archer, at one point in his career, threw 800 over 4 years. I'm not suggesting he can still throw 200 but there's a reason successful starting pitchers are what they are and relievers are what they are--mix and command. Thinking you don't need to add to the rotation because you've got Luis Cessa is tantamount to the mistake they made last year--of the many bad ones they made, I'd argue the single worst--of thinking Vlad Gutierrez and Reiver Sanmartin were an adequate back end of the rotation. If the Reds think that a Chris Archer or Dylan Bundy is no different from Connor Overtobn or Casey Legumina, then they deserve whatever happens to them.