New Year. Nothing changes.

[mth123]

Just to be a contrarian, the problem with giving Barrero an extended tryout is that if he doesn’t pan out, you’ve killed his worth on the market.

Already killed. If he hits, it recovers. If not, I think its the same as now.

[InsaneinthBrame]

What market does he have right now? He might be a throw in on a bigger deal, but he’s not bringing in anything good at this point. Reds have literally nothing to lose by playing him.

He still has trade value. Just like posters on here point at injury and AAA numbers in 2021. There are people that think they can fix the guy based on the talent. Senzel is in the same boat. Teams keep on trying with these high rated prospect. You have many on wanting to get the Jo Adells of the world

[InsaneinthBrame]

I'd normally agree with you, but he did have a good season in 2021 in AAA and was hurt last year and playing catch-up all year. There are others coming and there is no one else worth giving the PT to at this point, so I give him a shot in April in May and re-evaluate in June based on his performance and whether De La Cruz is ready. If he shows anything, he's an asset that can be traded, moved to another position or allow some one coming up behind him to move to another position. The Reds are very short on talent to fill the open positions. Not long ago he was the top prospect with a combo of Power and Speed to dream on. I don't write him off just yet. If he doesn't get that shot now, there may not be another opportunity.

I'd rather find out about Barrero once and for all than give those PAs to Newman or Reynolds. By Mid-season, there won't be room to give Barrero a shot. He has 2 months to claim the job or get pushed to the back-burner and become a completely worthless asset. .

I do not hand jobs to players that have not earned it. Barrero is not cutting it in the PRWL. Maybe on AAAhe might start strong and earn a promotion or improve trade value. Sending him against MLB pitchers that have a book on him is insane. Mlb figured his weakness at the end of 2021 and that scouting report went to AAA last year and is why he struggled injury is just an excuse to ignore the reality that his inability to recognize and hit breaking balls was his weakness. Mlb stats from 2020 and 2021 back up that these weakness existed before injury.

[Old school 1983]

I do not hand jobs to players that have not earned it. Barrero is not cutting it in the PRWL. Maybe on AAAhe might start strong and earn a promotion or improve trade value. Sending him against MLB pitchers that have a book on him is insane. Mlb figured his weakness at the end of 2021 and that scouting report went to AAA last year and is why he struggled injury is just an excuse to ignore the reality that his inability to recognize and hit breaking balls was his weakness. Mlb stats from 2020 and 2021 back up that these weakness existed before injury.

Ok. If you’re right, he isn’t ever making it anyway. Let him suck for 2 months, EDLC takes his place and the Reds can wash their hands of him.

[redsfan9988]

I do not hand jobs to players that have not earned it. Barrero is not cutting it in the PRWL. Maybe on AAAhe might start strong and earn a promotion or improve trade value. Sending him against MLB pitchers that have a book on him is insane. Mlb figured his weakness at the end of 2021 and that scouting report went to AAA last year and is why he struggled injury is just an excuse to ignore the reality that his inability to recognize and hit breaking balls was his weakness. Mlb stats from 2020 and 2021 back up that these weakness existed before injury.

The only real alternative at SS for opening day is Ryan Newman. He’s had 1663 MLB plate appearances and has a 79 OPS+. Barerro might get better with consistent MLB reps. Or he might not. My guess is that Newman has peaked.

As for Barerro’s trade value, i can’t imagine that benching him to keep everyone from seeing him play is a great strategy to get the buzz going. Best thing to do is play him.

[HokieRed]

Kevin Newman last year had a 94 OPS+. I'm all for giving Barrero 200 AB's (provided he shows some improvement in ST) to see if he can get things worked out a bit, but, IMO, 2 things are true: 1. Barrero at present has no trade value; and 2. At the moment Kevin Newman is a much better major league player than Barrero

[mth123]

Kevin Newman last year had a 94 OPS+. I'm all for giving Barrero 200 AB's (provided he shows some improvement in ST) to see if he can get things worked out a bit, but, IMO, 2 things are true: 1. Barrero at present has no trade value; and 2. At the moment Kevin Newman is a much better major league player than Barrero

3. Newman isn't a long term answer and the short term is completely meaningless. Time for Barrero to step-up or go away. Same way last year was that time for Senzel.

[redsfan9988]

3. Newman isn't a long term answer and the short term is completely meaningless. Time for Barrero to step-up or go away. Same way last year was that time for Senzel.

This. Either Barerro is an asset or he isn’t. This 95-loss season is an excellent time to find the answer to that question. There are 3 basic outcomes:

1. Barerro becomes a solid, everyday player that the Reds should keep and look to extend.
2. Barerro becomes a solid, everyday player that the Reds should look to deal to break up the future IF logjam
2. Barerro can’t hit MLB pitching and will be a 5th IF or out of the league by 2025.

I say we bat him leadoff and get him as many reps as possible so as to get to a clear answer. We have another year or two or meaningless games. Trial-and-error time is now.

[HokieRed]

3. Newman isn't a long term answer and the short term is completely meaningless. Time for Barrero to step-up or go away. Same way last year was that time for Senzel.

Couldn't agree more. I do think what was essentially the trade of Farmer for Newman makes sense because Newman is more of a middle infield at this point in their careers and is on contract for two years, which means he can be a decentish backup in 2024 in the middle. But like you I see him purely as a transition to EDLC or McClain or whoever else get positioned at SS in the new configuration that will start to emerge, I hope, by about midseason. If Barrero could fulfill the promise it looked like he had, it would be a huge lift for the ballclub, but, alas, the same could have been said at one point about Senzel.

[mth123]

Couldn't agree more. I do think what was essentially the trade of Farmer for Newman makes sense because Newman is more of a middle infield at this point in their careers and is on contract for two years, which means he can be a decentish backup in 2024 in the middle. But like you I see him purely as a transition to EDLC or McClain or whoever else get positioned at SS in the new configuration that will start to emerge, I hope, by about midseason. If Barrero could fulfill the promise it looked like he had, it would be a huge lift for the ballclub, but, alas, the same could have been said at one point about Senzel.

Problem is Senzel didn't step-up, but he's still here. Aquino stuck around well past his expiration date. My guess is if Barrero fails, he'll stay around as well. As long as they are cheap, they will remain Reds.

I wonder if Reds management his 10-year-old Mayonnaise cluttering up the fridge. They don't seem to be very good about throwing out stuff that's starting to become rancid.

[InsaneinthBrame]

This. Either Barerro is an asset or he isn’t. This 95-loss season is an excellent time to find the answer to that question. There are 3 basic outcomes:

1. Barerro becomes a solid, everyday player that the Reds should keep and look to extend.
2. Barerro becomes a solid, everyday player that the Reds should look to deal to break up the future IF logjam
2. Barerro can’t hit MLB pitching and will be a 5th IF or out of the league by 2025.

I say we bat him leadoff and get him as many reps as possible so as to get to a clear answer. We have another year or two or meaningless games. Trial-and-error time is now.

That would be criminal malpractice to send the kid to get his head bashed in that is real cruel to him and the fans. He has no chance if he starts in the majors. And nothing is meaningless or lost many fans do not seem to get this

[InsaneinthBrame]

The plate discipline chart on fans graphs shows his problems at the plate and they have not changed in 3 years. He swings at stuff out of the zone and makes poor contact

[Kc61]

That would be criminal malpractice to send the kid to get his head bashed in that is real cruel to him and the fans. He has no chance if he starts in the majors. And nothing is meaningless or lost many fans do not seem to get this

Fans argued with me and others when we said this last year. Barrero shouldn’t have been promoted. He had little to no chance in the big leagues.

The way to help him is to get him going at a lower level. Some argue it’s now or never, I don’t agree. The goal should be to help these guys be the best they can.

The expectations for 2023 are so low that I really don’t care very much. If the Reds want Barrero at short, fine, go ahead. Not worth worrying about.

[InsaneinthBrame]

Fans argued with me and others when we said this last year. Barrero shouldn’t have been promoted. He had little to no chance in the big leagues.

The way to help him is to get him going at a lower level. Some argue it’s now or never, I don’t agree. The goal should be to help these guys be the best they can.

The expectations for 2023 are so low that I really don’t care very much. If the Reds want Barrero at short, fine, go ahead. Not worth worrying about.

I agreed with you then that he should have never been brought because he was over matched in AAA. Bring him up sunk his value IMO

I rather the Reds go get Camargo on the cheap input him as a starter and hope he goes all Drury. Sounds like all you need is to give him a MLB deal. Other potentially cheap options are Simmons Iglesias or Gregorious

[CaribbeanRed]

I do not hand jobs to players that have not earned it.

Good Lord, I totally misread this sentence a few times. The word "not" and a space here and there makes all the difference