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View Poll Results: Has the NFL Tried to "Influence" Game Outcomes?

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  • Yes, I Definitely Think Games Have Been Influenced

    13 32.50%
  • No, I Definitely Don't Think Games Have Been Influenced

    12 30.00%
  • Unsure, But I Think Probably More Likely Than Not

    9 22.50%
  • Unsure, But I Think Probably Not

    6 15.00%
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Thread: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

  1. #31
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    This thread sponsored by Draftkings.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  4. #32
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    First there is human error when utilizing humans. You can make efforts to minimize it; but not completely eliminate it, achieve some sort of perfection. But that also shouldn't be used as an excuse for a lot of the officiating this season. And we've all seen some bad examples that makes one wonder.

    Or maybe they need to raise the standards for qualifications to be an NFL official?

    I've never liked that officials, when disciplined, was done so in secret, the public doesn't need to know but trust we did the right thing. So you have an old boys network just like in the police department, who say it's an "internal matter" and will be handled accordingly.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  5. #33
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Speaking of, the New York Times had an article yesterday where it was revealed that 8 Universities have economic packages with Sportsbooks and that another dozen or so have financial ties with Casinos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm surprised the naivity level is only 73%.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  6. #34
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Anytime you have officials that are just part time employees you open your self up for a lot more scrutiny and suspicion when things don't look quite right. All of these guys and gals are human beings and will have certain biases. Many of them probably bet on games too. So I don't doubt there have been instances where that has come into how things were called. I don't doubt there is subtle pressure from the league to look at certain plays or players or even teams for certain things and that can cause biases. Now you have all of these leagues welcoming betting on games and having these gambling services become sponsors. Some day, in some way there will be a huge scandal in which one of the gambling services will make sure a league influences a point spread to make sure they make out big in a weeks or days winnings. Some league whether it be the NFL,NBA,NHL,MLB or NCAA will fall hard and may become not relevant any longer because the fan will distrust so much what they put out there. I know I would.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  7. #35
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    I think it's quite possible that the NFL has tried to influence games in order to get a preferred matchup. I wouldn't go so far as to say the games are scripted like pro wrestling but, much like the NBA, superstars get calls others would not. It's not necessarily about winning or losing but keeping the favored players healthy.
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  9. #36
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    ^

    The NBA has full time refs, that didn't prevent them from seeing a betting scandal. MLB has full time managers, that didn't prevent them from seeing a betting scandal preventing seeing a betting scandal.

    Full time is just a term, frankly it doesn't matter much as the job details enable every ref the ability to hold another job/occupation when not working for the NFL. I'm sure there are some stipulations on what kind of jobs they can or specifically can't have (ie, I doubt they are allowed to work for a casino). If you want to argue that they should be paid more to lesson the desire to cheat, then so be it, but even that isn't going to stop a ref who might be getting squeezed by his bookie or trying to work the system to his/her favor.

    I do think they should require the refs be available to the media after games to explain any calls. Discipline, much like NFL teams and player discipline, I would assume stays in house unless the error is so egregious that it has to become public. I believe there have been crews that have been suspended or pulled off games for a week or multiple weeks that have been public. There are websites that grade the officials or at least detail out how many and what type of penalties they call in comparison to the average NFL game. I've seen it mentioned on twitter, I'm sure the NFL organizations are highly aware how each ref performs.

    The NBA already had a significant betting scandal. The league took a hit and everybody moved on. Unless the league itself was actively involved, the rogue official or group of officials isn't going to permanently bring the league down.

    I'm not sure how they would raise the standards for an NFL ref (not that I'm against doing that, I'm just not sure what it would entail) When my grandfather was evaluated/scouting refs, I remember he said there were always a bunch of refs that put in the application to be evaluated for the position each season. It wasn't just the refs in the BIG or SEC looking to move up (actually those are pretty good gigs themselves and many prefer them to NFL gigs) but he scouted refs during games at then 1-AA Marshall (I remember him telling me that Randy Moss was the best football player he had seen since Jim Brown) and non scholarship Dayton. The NFL casts a pretty wide net for their refs. One issue they will face; all sports will face is the lack of young people getting into reffing. The fan abuse I've seen refs take at pee wee football games or rec baseball games is crazy. It doesn't surprise me that less and less people want to get into it as a side hustle. A Pee Wee ref can pretty easily make $500 a Saturday for reffing 5 games. The fan and coaching abuse isn't always worth it.
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  11. #37
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    ^

    The NBA has full time refs, that didn't prevent them from seeing a betting scandal. MLB has full time managers, that didn't prevent them from seeing a betting scandal preventing seeing a betting scandal.

    Full time is just a term, frankly it doesn't matter much as the job details enable every ref the ability to hold another job/occupation when not working for the NFL. I'm sure there are some stipulations on what kind of jobs they can or specifically can't have (ie, I doubt they are allowed to work for a casino). If you want to argue that they should be paid more to lesson the desire to cheat, then so be it, but even that isn't going to stop a ref who might be getting squeezed by his bookie or trying to work the system to his/her favor.

    I do think they should require the refs be available to the media after games to explain any calls. Discipline, much like NFL teams and player discipline, I would assume stays in house unless the error is so egregious that it has to become public. I believe there have been crews that have been suspended or pulled off games for a week or multiple weeks that have been public. There are websites that grade the officials or at least detail out how many and what type of penalties they call in comparison to the average NFL game. I've seen it mentioned on twitter, I'm sure the NFL organizations are highly aware how each ref performs.

    The NBA already had a significant betting scandal. The league took a hit and everybody moved on. Unless the league itself was actively involved, the rogue official or group of officials isn't going to permanently bring the league down.

    I'm not sure how they would raise the standards for an NFL ref (not that I'm against doing that, I'm just not sure what it would entail) When my grandfather was evaluated/scouting refs, I remember he said there were always a bunch of refs that put in the application to be evaluated for the position each season. It wasn't just the refs in the BIG or SEC looking to move up (actually those are pretty good gigs themselves and many prefer them to NFL gigs) but he scouted refs during games at then 1-AA Marshall (I remember him telling me that Randy Moss was the best football player he had seen since Jim Brown) and non scholarship Dayton. The NFL casts a pretty wide net for their refs. One issue they will face; all sports will face is the lack of young people getting into reffing. The fan abuse I've seen refs take at pee wee football games or rec baseball games is crazy. It doesn't surprise me that less and less people want to get into it as a side hustle. A Pee Wee ref can pretty easily make $500 a Saturday for reffing 5 games. The fan and coaching abuse isn't always worth it.
    There was a High School Principle here in Portland, who did that full-time, of course, but then was an NFL Referree for at least a decade. I sold him a car once (a prestine yellow cadillac). I also sat next to him on a plane from Portland to San Francisco. He was Principle at Jefferson, Cleveland and Marshall in the '80's, while also working as a ref in the NFL.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 01-17-2023 at 10:07 AM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  12. #38
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    I forgot about this until just now, but figured I'd share:

    https://a0.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments..._officiated_4/

    Its an AMA on redit that my grandfather did 9 years ago, my cousin was typing/answering questions for him. He answers some of the questions brought up in here. He passed away not too terribly long after this, like maybe a year later, maybe 2. His mind was always sharp as he aged, has some good lines in there.
    Posting in the clutch since twenty ought two.

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  14. #39
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    One of my pet peeves in the NFL is defensive holding, illegal contact, hands to the face, and PI. They are easy flags to throw and the extend drives, but the 5 yards is rather minimal. There are many times where drives are continued because of defensive holding when it looks to have stalled out, even completely away from the play. Then you have the obvious PI that is called defensive holding and you are left scratching your head.

    I don't think the game is fixed, and I do tend to think the officials are pretty good in the NFL. Its a tough job to do, especially with the speed of the game. I think back to the old super bowl games as opposed to the more recent games. Over the past two decades you had what, two uncompetitive games? More often than not, the most high profile games are competitive. Just look at wild card weekend, 75% of the games were one score games. Its even more impressive when you had three of the teams starting backup or 3rd string QB's.

    I look at last years Super Bowl and see a game the NFL wants. The underdog has the lead until late, the favorite gets a gift of a defensive holding call to take the lead late, then you have the dog with the ball and a chance to score to win the game. If you take out the fans of both teams playing in the game, it was great theater to every single other NFL fan. That is exactly what the NFL wants. They got Burrow v Allen. They get Mahomes v Lawrence. They more often than not get the premier matchup and the drama that goes along with it.

    I think there are times where some teams get the calls over another team. If you are clearly better than the other team (or clearly better on that day) it won't matter. But when one or two calls can swing the game, and those penalties happen on each and every play, its hard to ignore the NFL's impact. FWIW, its nice having a face of the NFL on my team.

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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Influenced is doing some heavy lifting here, but yeah, I think it’s somewhat rigged. Not like professional wrestling rigged. But, I think the league can and does use the officials in a way to push certain results.
    I've been saying that exact same thing for 30 years now

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  17. #41
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Regarding last years Superbowl, The sports talk radio station here in Detroit had a head of a Vegas sportsbook on, and he said that all of the money was on the Bengals, so if the Bengals won Vegas was going to take a bath, then the defensive penalty came out late for the Rams. coincedence? makes you wonder

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  19. #42
    Eight bosses? Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    It doesn't make me wonder. It's as plain as the sun rising every morning.

    That much money involved? It's gonna be compromised.

    The older I get, the more I come to understand... Listen up, young whipper-snappers... Whatever game we're talking about... Football, baseball, life, whatever...

    It's rigged. It's all rigged. Once you figure that out, and stop paying attention to the sleight of hand illusions and distractions... The whole world will open up for you to such a degree that you'll realize how sectioned off it actually is.
    "Lemonade requires a significant amount of sugar. Otherwise, you've just made lemon juice."

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  21. #43
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I believe there have been crews that have been suspended or pulled off games for a week or multiple weeks that have been public. There are websites that grade the officials or at least detail out how many and what type of penalties they call in comparison to the average NFL game.
    The Athletic had an article this year about teams scouting refs. I guess there's enough disparity in aggression with penalty calling that it is worth it for teams to know how loose or tight the refs are each game.
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  23. #44
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    Influenced, yes.

    Scripted, no.

    That’s all pro and college sports though outside of wrestling.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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  25. #45
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Fully Trust NFL Outcomes ?

    There's too much money available running these leagues straight up to outright be rigging anything. That's completely off the table and I think a person has to be a little bit of a rube to think otherwise.

    That said, veteran/star QBs clearly get more calls. I don't know the reasoning refs would give there - I'd rather see all QBs protected because watching bad QB play via backups blows - but it's been noticeable as a Bengals fan. Burrow could get mauled his rookie year with no calls, now he gets more protection. Still not to the level of a Brady, but more.

    Individual refs could be compromised, like Donaghy. I would hope leagues monitor and take that seriously. Vegas doesn't want this sort of thing happening either btw, so incentives are aligned all over the place against things being rigged.

    I also think there are biases in place, and I don't think you can solve for that. The Bengals had a reputation for years under Marvin and probably got called tighter because of it. You could see refs watching Burfict like a hawk, but you can bring that kind of attention on yourself.

    I'm kind of finding it funny the idea that the NFL has to call things favorably to someone like Patrick Mahomes to get him to the AFC Championship game or whatever. I don't know, I feel like I have a unique perspective on this as a Bengals fan. Having watched a ton of mediocre football, when you're a fan of the weaker team you need every call to go your way and it's maddening when they don't, I get it. And sometimes refs miss a call that costs teams a game, I'm not disputing that (Logan Wilson in the SB is a good example.) But the vast majority of the time the result on the field has little to do with the refereeing, no matter what you see fans saying in their team subreddit after a game.
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