Jonathan India, should the Reds consider a move to the outfield?

[icehole3]

Man, they need 150-160 games from him. All Star talent IMO, but not that my opinion matters.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Taking India from a spot where offense is a rarity and placing him in a place where offense is expected would seem to be a bad idea.

So is, IMO, depending on India as an offensive force.

Dude had a 116 OPS+ his rookie year. That's good, but not earth-shattering. Last year, he was really bad-- below replacement level, all told, and below league average offensively.

If you believe in his talent, moving him to CF might make sense-- but not a corner spot.

Does India have the defensive chops for CF?

[mth123]

I think you put India at 3B and move Marte to RF now while he's in AA. Some combo of McLain, De La Cruz, Barrero and Siani probably handles the up the middle spots with Arroyo figuring in down the road. Spencer Steer is your supersub (who can play 2B until the kids start arriving). After 2025 or so, India is probably shipped off for younger guys and Collier takes over at 3B.

I'm not a believer in sticking a guy at a spot that he can't play defensively just because the bat looks better there (maybe LF or 1B but only those spots). Move him where he can be average or better defensively and if the bat doesn't play, get better players.

[JCM11]

India had leg problems last year so I can't see how running around in the OF is going to keep him healthier. Let the younger more athletic IF make the move to the OF if needed.

[MoneyInTheBank]

India had leg problems last year so I can't see how running around in the OF is going to keep him healthier. Let the younger more athletic IF make the move to the OF if needed.

By no means am I saying we should disregard soft tissue injuries in 2022 but we shouldn't overreact to them either. With the lockout, players didn't get their usual buildup to the season. With that said, I also would not endorse a move to the OF but injury risk would not be the reason.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I think you put India at 3B and move Marte to RF now while he's in AA. Some combo of McLain, De La Cruz, Barrero and Siani probably handles the up the middle spots with Arroyo figuring in down the road. Spencer Steer is your supersub (who can play 2B until the kids start arriving). After 2025 or so, India is probably shipped off for younger guys and Collier takes over at 3B.

I'm not a believer in sticking a guy at a spot that he can't play defensively just because the bat looks better there (maybe LF or 1B but only those spots). Move him where he can be average or better defensively and if the bat doesn't play, get better players.

This idea makes a lot of sense.

That said, I love the idea of Marte mashing in CF. I suspect he can handle the move athletically too, as his SB totals indicate he's either very baseball smart of quick. (Or both.) We already know he has a cannon for an arm.

If it's my team, I'm trying Marte in CF now. In AA, there's absolutely no one in that spot (unless Hendrick is moved there), and he could be a difference-maker as a 120 wRC+ bat. There are two RF already (Cerda and Hinds) who have a puncher's chance of working out.

If it's my team, India moves to 3B this year, Collier slates in as his heir apparent three or so years away, Steer mans 2B until McLain comes up, EDLC plays SS until he proves he can't, Encarnacion-Strand plays both 3B and 1B as a corner guy. Siani is my CF until Marte proves he can or can't handle it. LF and RF are largely interchangeable in Cincinnati, though the better arm is nice to have. I'm guessing Cincinnati's going to need a corner guy or two as early as next year.

[Kc61]

India had hamstring and leg injuries last season. If they are healed, and he’s moving well, I’d just leave him at second base for now. I don’t think last season was a good test of his defense, he played hurt.

If he has trouble defensively at second with the new anti-shift rules, then I move him to third.

The outfield is a major move, I would hold my fire on that. Let’s see how the others develop.

[KronoRed]

Better to trade him then move him to the OF.

[OldFashionedRed]

Taking India from a spot where offense is a rarity and placing him in a place where offense is expected would seem to be a bad idea.

So is, IMO, depending on India as an offensive force.

Dude had a 116 OPS+ his rookie year. That's good, but not earth-shattering. Last year, he was really bad-- below replacement level, all told, and below league average offensively.

If you believe in his talent, moving him to CF might make sense-- but not a corner spot.

Does India have the defensive chops for CF?

I don't really get why some people are so fixated with requiring that certain positions must have a certain type or level of offense. It's offense. They swing bats. It should always be about trying to build a team that's balanced offensively and defensively. Some guys are going to be great hitters, other great hitters. The only exception I could see is something like "pitchers should not expect to be good hitters" because, well, they typically don't spend a lot of time in the batting cages or strengthening their muscles in ways that favor good hitting results.

[Benihana]

Keep India where he is.
Move Marte to RF now.
If anyone is playing CF, it will be McLain this year, followed by Elly in a couple years IF Arroyo (or Barrero) forces the issue.
Let Steer man 3B until Collier is ready. If he can't handle it, maybe McLain (or Senzel) plays there if Senzel finally learns to hit.
That would be my plan at least.

[Roy Tucker]

I thought I read somewhere that India purposely put on weight in 2022 to add some power. Unfortunately it just added leg injuries.

I also thought reading he has since taken the weight back off and will be more of a doubles-triples power hitter.

[TNRED]

leave India where he is. Trade a few of these 20 short stops the team has for a bonafide centerfielder that can hit.

[camisadelgolf]

People frequently talk about Marte's body "filling out". If he's going to the outfield, he'll be playing more left field than right field despite his arm strength.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I don't really get why some people are so fixated with requiring that certain positions must have a certain type or level of offense. It's offense. They swing bats. It should always be about trying to build a team that's balanced offensively and defensively. Some guys are going to be great hitters, other great hitters. The only exception I could see is something like "pitchers should not expect to be good hitters" because, well, they typically don't spend a lot of time in the batting cages or strengthening their muscles in ways that favor good hitting results.

Requirement? No. But here's why it matters: https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...position.shtml

As you move down the defensive spectrum, the better you have to hit to have value (this is part of the basis for the WAR calculation)

For example, assuming league average defense at each position, for Jonathan India's WAR to remain the same he would have to add 10 runs of offensive value playing a corner OF spot (which was roughly the difference between 2021 India and 2021 Winker/Castellanos). This speaks to your point about a balanced offense and defense.

Not a WAR believer? There's a reason why you don't see "glove first" 1B or corner outfielders

[Slyder]

It worked so well with Senzel! No the only move for him would be back to 3b for the time being and see if he can find his rookie year bat.