Reds See Plenty Of Potential In New Outfielder Will Benson

[JCM11]

Then CES sits or Marte sits. CES, McLain, EDLC, India, Votto, Steer all in the line-up at the same time. Next year, sub Marte for Votto. If Steer is a platoon LF, that means against RHP somebody else plays LF and one of those guys sits. I say no. They can do it selectively when somebody needs a rest, but not as a design where somebody else who is a lesser player is in LF.

Marte is on the IL in AA, and Votto has yet to show he's ready, and I'd be shocked if Marte and Votto are on the Reds at the same time.

[mth123]

Marte is on the IL in AA, and Votto has yet to show he's ready, and I'd be shocked if Marte and Votto are on the Reds at the same time.

Votto this year. Marte next year.

For now lets say those guys are the DH though I know Marte will probably be at 3B with say India at DH.
1B - CES
2B McLain
SS EDLC
3B India/Marte
CF Friedl
RF Fraley and one of Senzel, Fairchild, Hopkins, Barrero or some dude from Newport,, KY

That leaves LF for Steer.

If Steer is a platoon LF, that means he gets about 40 starts out there and for every other start, one of those IF or DH will need to sit while Benson or somebody else is in LF. I say that's too much sitting for the team's primary players. Steer is the primary LF. If somebody needs rest, he can fill in and the 5th OF can play. I wouldn't design a line-up where the 5th OF starts 120 times per year.

[JCM11]

There will likely be some trades between now and the start of the 2024 season to clear some position player log jam. None of these fantasy lineups will matter much if the Reds don't add some substantial SP. They can package India, Marte, Fraley, or Steer to bring back pitching this off season. Other than Elly, McLain and maybe CES everyone would be up for grabs for the right return.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Votto this year. Marte next year.

For now lets say those guys are the DH though I know Marte will probably be at 3B with say India at DH.
1B - CES
2B McLain
SS EDLC
3B India/Marte
CF Friedl
RF Fraley and one of Senzel, Fairchild, Hopkins, Barrero or some dude from Newport,, KY

That leaves LF for Steer.

If Steer is a platoon LF, that means he gets about 40 starts out there and for every other start, one of those IF or DH will need to sit while Benson or somebody else is in LF. I say that's too much sitting for the team's primary players. Steer is the primary LF. If somebody needs rest, he can fill in and the 5th OF can play. I wouldn't design a line-up where the 5th OF starts 120 times per year.

You keep framing it this way when it's already been explained to you how it would work.

The Reds already give their players a day of rest. Often. Injuries occur as well. Having Steer as that utility guy makes the entire team better. As explained earlier, he doesn't replace India so much as he replaces Senzel, Fairchild, and Newman-- who are the weaker links both on this team and on teams throughout the history of the game. The rest of the starters would get virtually the same number of PAs they're already getting-- the only difference is that the production wouldn't slip when they're out of the lineup.

Here's Tony Phillips' career as an example. Notice that he becomes a safety net for a variety of positions. As an Oakland A, he played some SS in lieu of a full-time option early in his career. He struggled defensively. Then, he moved to a utility role. The 1988 A's had the following PA numbers:
- Mark McGwire at 1B with 155 games and 600+ PAs
- A platoon at 2B wherein Hubbard and Gallego got 600+ PAs between them
- Walt Weiss with 147 games and 500+ PAs
- Carney Lansford with 150 games and 600+ PAs

The next season, he took over at 2B when Hubbard struggled and Weiss got hurt. That Phillips safety valve allowed the A's to win the championship, fwiw.

In 1992, after moving to the Tigers, Phillips played 57 games at 2B (Whitaker was hurt), 20 games at 3B (a 15-day DL for Livingstone plus rest), 14 in LF, 24 in CF, 69 in RF, and 34 at DH. He ended up with more than 700 PAs. Everyone in the Tiger infield (aside from an injured Livingstone) had 544 PAs or more. Two infielders-- Fielder and Fryman-- had 650+ PAs.

Ben Zobrist made a career out of being an extra guy-- though he ended up playing far more 2B than other positions. He allowed Maddon the freedom to create, say, a LF platoon (with Matt Joyce) while also playing Zobrist a ton at 2B. While that cut some PAs from those two positions, it also protected the Rays from injury.

The Cardinals had a decade plus of guys who made careers out of playing multiple positions. The 2006 Cardinals don't win the World Series without Scott Spiezio, for example. Speaking of world championships, the 2006 Dodgers don't win their title without Cody Bellinger or Chris Taylor. Chone Figgins out of Anaheim is another great example of a utllity guy who makes the entire team better.

Put another way, a full-time LF Steer is just another guy. A platoon of Steer and Fraley, otoh, allows the Reds to have two 120 OPS+ bats in the game instead of Steer's and Senzel's 90 (if we're lucky).

[mth123]

You keep framing it this way when it's already been explained to you how it would work.

The Reds already give their players a day of rest. Often. Injuries occur as well. Having Steer as that utility guy makes the entire team better. As explained earlier, he doesn't replace India so much as he replaces Senzel, Fairchild, and Newman-- who are the weaker links both on this team and on teams throughout the history of the game. The rest of the starters would get virtually the same number of PAs they're already getting-- the only difference is that the production wouldn't slip when they're out of the lineup.

Here's Tony Phillips' career as an example. Notice that he becomes a safety net for a variety of positions. As an Oakland A, he played some SS in lieu of a full-time option early in his career. He struggled defensively. Then, he moved to a utility role. The 1988 A's had the following PA numbers:
- Mark McGwire at 1B with 155 games and 600+ PAs
- A platoon at 2B wherein Hubbard and Gallego got 600+ PAs between them
- Walt Weiss with 147 games and 500+ PAs
- Carney Lansford with 150 games and 600+ PAs

The next season, he took over at 2B when Hubbard struggled and Weiss got hurt. That Phillips safety valve allowed the A's to win the championship, fwiw.

In 1992, after moving to the Tigers, Phillips played 57 games at 2B (Whitaker was hurt), 20 games at 3B (a 15-day DL for Livingstone plus rest), 14 in LF, 24 in CF, 69 in RF, and 34 at DH. He ended up with more than 700 PAs. Everyone in the Tiger infield (aside from an injured Livingstone) had 544 PAs or more. Two infielders-- Fielder and Fryman-- had 650+ PAs.

Ben Zobrist made a career out of being an extra guy-- though he ended up playing far more 2B than other positions. He allowed Maddon the freedom to create, say, a LF platoon (with Matt Joyce) while also playing Zobrist a ton at 2B. While that cut some PAs from those two positions, it also protected the Rays from injury.

The Cardinals had a decade plus of guys who made careers out of playing multiple positions. The 2006 Cardinals don't win the World Series without Scott Spiezio, for example. Speaking of world championships, the 2006 Dodgers don't win their title without Cody Bellinger or Chris Taylor. Chone Figgins out of Anaheim is another great example of a utllity guy who makes the entire team better.

Put another way, a full-time LF Steer is just another guy. A platoon of Steer and Fraley, otoh, allows the Reds to have two 120 OPS+ bats in the game instead of Steer's and Senzel's 90 (if we're lucky).

OK. so Steer platoons with Fraley and plays everywhere else against RHP. Who is in RF? You still will have a 5th OF in the line-up every day while one of your best players is sitting. Why can't we leave the Fraley/whover platoon in RF and Steer in LF and only play some bench player when you absolutely have to? The problem isn't that Steer won't play enough, the problem is some automatic out 5th OF will play too much.

Design the team so the best players play 150 games per year. That's 2 days off per month. Should be plenty. If you need more days off, you can still do it. Why pencil in your worst player more often than your best ones? I don't have the problem with Steer moving around when needed. I have a problem with the concept of a straight platoon in LF where some sub-starter caliber player starts 125 games per year as the long side of that platoon.

[Kingspoint]

I think a Benson/ Senzel platoon in RF makes a lot of sense for the rest of the season. (Assuming they don't plan on trotting Myers out there anymore.)

Ditto Fraley/ Steer in LF.

Because Steer and Senzel can play multiple infield positions, that means they can theoretically also carry Fairchild and/or Hopkins (instead of Barrero or Newman).

Used correctly, Senzel has positive attributes. What you said makes a lot of sense.

The positives from Senzel this season [basically the same since he made an adjustment at the end of Summer last season to his batting (watching the results that Friedl and another got from their adjustments)].

[Kingspoint]

I had no idea about Hopkins or Fairchild being that fast. Also agree that the Reds shouldn't move Fraley.

Speed helps to avoid Double-Plays, for one thing.

Fairchild has had 30 opportunities to hit into one, and he has yet to do so. Friedl is a perfect 36 for 36. Barrero is 26 for 27. McClain is 21 for 22. 7 other REDS have hit into at least 4 Double-plays.

[Kingspoint]

All of these substitution/playing issues take care of themselves. Players get injured enough to see the IL. Day games after Night games allows for a day of rest. Nagging injuries can cost a player a game or two or five. We have three Starters on the IL right now.

[TRF]

Benson is now getting every AB Fraley was getting while he's on the IL, and he's making the most of it.

Last 7 days: .368 .400 .526 .926

Fraley's wrist should not require a rehab assignment, unless he just wants some AB's. Which begs the question... Who loses AB's when Fraley returns? Steer back to 1B, Benson in one of the OF spots not manned by Friedl. Stephenson seems to be the DH when he doesn't catch. When a LH is on the mound, there are a bunch of RH batter to take their spots, but Fraley's return means someone goes down. Barrero?

I do not think they want Benson to head back to Louisville. They may want Barrero to do just that to build value.

[Old school 1983]

Benson is now getting every AB Fraley was getting while he's on the IL, and he's making the most of it.

Last 7 days: .368 .400 .526 .926

Fraley's wrist should not require a rehab assignment, unless he just wants some AB's. Which begs the question... Who loses AB's when Fraley returns? Steer back to 1B, Benson in one of the OF spots not manned by Friedl. Stephenson seems to be the DH when he doesn't catch. When a LH is on the mound, there are a bunch of RH batter to take their spots, but Fraley's return means someone goes down. Barrero?

I do not think they want Benson to head back to Louisville. They may want Barrero to do just that to build value.

Newman loses ABs. Steer back to first. Fraley to the OF. Hopkins to AAA

[LeatherPants]

Benson is now getting every AB Fraley was getting while he's on the IL, and he's making the most of it.

Last 7 days: .368 .400 .526 .926

Fraley's wrist should not require a rehab assignment, unless he just wants some AB's. Which begs the question... Who loses AB's when Fraley returns? Steer back to 1B, Benson in one of the OF spots not manned by Friedl. Stephenson seems to be the DH when he doesn't catch. When a LH is on the mound, there are a bunch of RH batter to take their spots, but Fraley's return means someone goes down. Barrero?

I do not think they want Benson to head back to Louisville. They may want Barrero to do just that to build value.

They need to drop a catcher and open up the DH. Stephenson shouldn't be getting DH at bats.

[Ron Madden]

Thomas Nestico
@TJStats
·
18h

Since his call-up on May 21, Will Benson has seen the 2nd biggest improvement in K% compared to his season average (min. 40 PA)*

He made great strides in improving his plate approach in AAA, and it is paying dividends thus far.

*Not including games from today.
see chart here:
https://twitter.com/TJStats/status/1...878146/photo/1

[Ron Madden]

Cincinnati Reds
@Reds
·
12m

Will Benson since being called up on May 26:

�� 13-for-36
�� .361/.425/.500
�� .925 OPS
�� 1 epic walkoff

[Bourgeois Zee]

OK. so Steer platoons with Fraley and plays everywhere else against RHP. Who is in RF? You still will have a 5th OF in the line-up every day while one of your best players is sitting.

Against LH? Senzel, maybe Hopkins. Maybe Fairchild. Or a free agent who kills southpaws. Against RH? Will Benson from the current roster would probably be playing on those rare days when all the other players are fully healthy and well-rested.

That's better, IMO, than having the Kevin Newmans of the world lead off, and the Jose Barreros of the world attempt to hit sliders. Ever.

[TRF]

Barrero likely has to go to AAA. Play everyday at SS, and show the rest of MLB why he was the Reds top prospect not that long ago. He needs it for him, and the Reds need it for the return they can get. He always seems like he's on the verge, then he sits or doesn't capitalize. I won't cry a bit if he has a superb 10+ year career elsewhere. Right now his value to the reds is in future return, not sitting 6 days a week.

Fairchild has to stay as the RH platoon for... someone. Friedl doesn't have significant splits. And if Steer is in LF almost all the time, one of Fraley/Benson will have to go. I prefer the potential we are seeing in Benson. I think Fraley settles in as a .780 OPS bat with ok defense and excellent baserunning. Both Benson and Fraley are fiery guys. Both seem like good teammates from the little we get to see of that. Based on minor league numbers, Benson seems to have the higher ceiling is all.