2023 is our last year of Votto

[757690]

No, because if they don't pick-up the option, they have to pay the buyout of $7 Million. Add that to the $10 Million and its $17 Million.

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again we're talking a net difference of $13 Million. That's less than 2 WAR. If Votto can't put up that much this year, he'll probably retire. If he does, the option should be a no brainer.

First, Votto decision to retire will not rest on whether or not he thinks he can produce 2 WAR. That’s a bizarre line to draw. It will depend on a myriad of factors, most of them personal, most of which none of us are privy to.

Second, $13M or even $7M is a meaningful amount of money to pay when a team doesn’t have to, no matter the team. Even the Dodgers and Mets would not pick up the option if they believed they could sign Votto for less. It’s especially meaningful to the Reds who traded a useful player like Farmer over $2M.

The decision would be based on what both sides understand Votto could get on the open market. Even if he puts up 2 WAR this season, he’s not getting offered anywhere near $20M by anyone. Clayton Kershaw got a 1 year $20M deal this offseason after putting up a 3.8 WAR season, and he’s only 34. Votto over the age of 40 is getting around half that, and only if he’s good this year.

[kaldaniels]

Maybe someone else can but as mth says - the math is hard to work out where he ignores that 7 million buyout and renegotiates down to a 10-12 million dollar deal.

Point of this thread being - Enjoy watching him (and his antics) this year.

[757690]

Maybe someone else can but as mth says - the math is hard to work out where he ignores that 7 million buyout and renegotiates down to a 10-12 million dollar deal.

Point of this thread being - Enjoy watching him (and his antics) this year.

Not really when you look at the market.

Matt Carpenter, age 36, put a 2.3 fWAR season last year. He signed a 1 year deal for $6.5M. That is about what Votto should expect if he has a strong 2023. Add that to the buy out and you are looking at $13M for a younger player. I can easily see Votto giving the Reds a discount to stay a Red his entire career.

[kaldaniels]

I’m sure there is some permutation of Votto’s performance and ownership gumption and frankly wise-spending where he would come back but I’m not counting on it one bit. I mean CES and who knows who else will be standing there ready to man first base for the minimum. Suppose our prospects do bloom and the pocketbooks open up for 2024…is the money (over the buyout) best spent on Votto?

[Kc61]

I really don’t think the money is a significant obstacle. Votto’s a wealthy guy, if he wants to play, he’ll work something out. The $7 million buyout is meaningless, they’ll come up with a number so he can play as a Red.

The bigger issue is playing time. Unless Reds intend to use Joey as a regular everyday player it may not be worth his while. I’m not sure he wants to be an old guy who plays three times a week and pinch hits. If Reds can’t come up with a scheme to give him meaningful playing time, he might just stop.

[mth123]

Not really when you look at the market.

Matt Carpenter, age 36, put a 2.3 fWAR season last year. He signed a 1 year deal for $6.5M. That is about what Votto should expect if he has a strong 2023. Add that to the buy out and you are looking at $13M for a younger player. I can easily see Votto giving the Reds a discount to stay a Red his entire career.

That was Carpenter's first good year since 2018. Votto was very good in 2021. He was injured last year. If he comes back, he'll be in demand for more than that.

[kaldaniels]

And if he is playing well - I would not rule out at all a mutually-agreed deadline deal sending Joey off to a contender to give him one last shot at a ring.

The ball is in Joey’s court on that one and I know what he’s said about being a Red - but I actually think it would be a pretty cool thing to watch him have a chance.

[JFLegal]

Maybe someone else can but as mth says - the math is hard to work out where he ignores that 7 million buyout and renegotiates down to a 10-12 million dollar deal.

Point of this thread being - Enjoy watching him (and his antics) this year.

he wouldn't be ignoring it. he would be realizing the fact that making $10M or $12M is better than making $7M (if he wants to keep playing baseball in 2024). there will not be a strong market for a 40-year-old joey votto during the 2023-24 offseason. if he was a free agent, would any team pay him $5M for one year in 2024? i doubt it. so, taking a $12M offer from the reds (basically the $7M buyout plus an extra $5M) might be the best he could do financially in 2024, while playing for the same team his entire career. and there's a chance the 2024 reds could be decent. a nice way to send him off.

[mth123]

he wouldn't be ignoring it. he would be realizing the fact that making $10M or $12M is better than making $7M (if he wants to keep playing baseball in 2024). there will not be a strong market for a 40-year-old joey votto during the 2023-24 offseason. if he was a free agent, would any team pay him $5M for one year in 2024? i doubt it. so, taking a $12M offer from the reds (basically the $7M buyout plus an extra $5M) might be the best he could do financially in 2024, while playing for the same team his entire career. and there's a chance the 2024 reds could be decent. a nice way to send him off.

For team's outside of Cincinnati, $5 Million is tip money. He'd get way more than that. We're only talking about if he has a good season. In 2021, Nelson Cruz, at age 40, had an .832 OPS and signed a deal for 2022 with Washington for $12 Million. If Votto puts up similar numbers this year, at age 39, he'll get at least that. He could get that on top of the $7 Million buy-out. Basically the $20 Million option the Reds could exercise.

If Votto has a year like last year, then the Reds decline the option and Votto probably retires, but if he has a year good enough for the Reds to actually want him back, it's hard to see him back for anything less than the $20 Million option price.

[malcontent]

I'd prefer to work whatever amount we're talking into extensions for the young guys that Phil is already warning us we'll lose.

[herbdizzle]

Votto is the best Red we've had since Larkin. He wants to be a part of this organization post playing days and unless he requests a trade or retires I'd like to see him in 24 as long as he's reasonably productive. I'm still hoping he's our next manager. If he does hang em up make him the hitting coach.

[GAC]

IMO, Joey Votto is going to have a rough '23 season of ups and downs. Why? He's 39 and trying to recover from shoulder surgery. Not an easy thing to do. Especially for a professional ballplayer at that age.

It would be nice if Votto announced this was his last year so the team/fans/MLB could honor him properly throughout the course of the season.

[CySeymour]

I'd prefer to work whatever amount we're talking into extensions for the young guys that Phil is already warning us we'll lose.

[NebraskaRed]

Jim Bowden⚾️��
@JimBowdenGM

Nick Krall #Reds GM told us their plan is for Joey Votto to finish his career as a Red. However, if the Reds are out of it at the trade deadline and Votto came to them and asked if they would trade him home to Toronto #BlueJays..he said he would consider under those circumstances

[Ron Madden]

Jim Bowden doesn't make any sense. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is the starting first baseman for Toronto and they have Brandon Belt a LHH first baseman too.