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Thread: Hunter Greene Part 2

  1. #331
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyJ View Post
    It seems clear at this point that Greeneís gone about as far as heís gonna go without adding a distinctive third pitch, so I really donít understand them being so tentative about throwing the splitter. Is this a DJ thing?
    My guess is that the splitter is just not good enough. So he'll throw it maybe once or twice a game, that's it.
    In Greene's defense, lots of pitchers have tried to add the splitter, many never got the hang of it.
    Unfortunately, kind of hard to add a new pitch. I wish the Reds would focus on that more when the kids are in the minors.
    Cingrani is the perfect example, they let him breeze through the minors throwing something like 90% fastballs. He should have been working on secondary pitches. It's ok to have bad outings in the minors. It's a lot tougher learning new pitches at the MLB where the wins matter.
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  4. #332
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    My only concern for Hunter, due to his injury history, is the high pitch counts by the 4th or 5th inning. The other night he had 100+ pitches in the 6th inning.

    He has a solid fastball, a "WIP" slider, and average changeup and curveball. IMO, he needs to further develop those secondary pitches to mix it up to batters, keep them off balance. It also will improve the effectiveness of his fastball.

    Just going to have to be patient with the kid if we say he is developing.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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  6. #333
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    My only concern for Hunter, due to his injury history, is the high pitch counts by the 4th or 5th inning. The other night he had 100+ pitches in the 6th inning.

    He has a solid fastball, a "WIP" slider, and average changeup and curveball. IMO, he needs to further develop those secondary pitches to mix it up to batters, keep them off balance. It also will improve the effectiveness of his fastball.

    Just going to have to be patient with the kid if we say he is developing.
    He actually scrapped the change
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  8. #334
    I wear Elly colored glass WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    I'm reminded of the old adage -- which I've seen attributed to Earl Weaver, but probably goes way further back than that: Work fast, throw strikes, change speeds.

    If Greene doesn't learn to change speeds, he's going to have trouble. The Mariners' foul balls that someone else mentioned was because Greene either doesn't have an out pitch or, more likely, because all his pitches were about the same speed.
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  10. #335
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I'm reminded of the old adage -- which I've seen attributed to Earl Weaver, but probably goes way further back than that: Work fast, throw strikes, change speeds.

    If Greene doesn't learn to change speeds, he's going to have trouble. The Mariners' foul balls that someone else mentioned was because Greene either doesn't have an out pitch or, more likely, because all his pitches were about the same speed.
    Yep, they couldn't do much with his pitches but they won the battle of attrition. He needs to get some softer outs by allowing some of the fielders to participate

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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Krivsky View Post
    If he is putting up mostly zeros in those 4-5 innings every start then I would agree with you. If he's giving up a run every other inning with the short starts then yeah I'd rather see what he can do with 2-3 innings every 4 days.
    I think he's doing exactly that. He has only given up runs in 8 of his 21 innings that he has started (he only pitched 2/3s of an inning in one of those). Half of those came in that Milwaukee start where he gave up 6 earned and his only 2 HRs.

    Don't get me wrong, this is not a cherry picking exercise. All starts count. If we are sitting here in June and he's still going <5 innings in half his starts and getting shelled in a quarter of them, I'll turn up the concern-o-meter
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Greene is averaging 5.05 innings per start this year.

    The MLB average is 5.17 by my calculation (BR rounds to 5.2).

    So he’s just about average in the length of his starts.

    I’m sure Hunter aspires to longer starts, but it’s not exactly a disastrous record, over only four games this season.

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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I think he's doing exactly that. He has only given up runs in 8 of his 21 innings that he has started (he only pitched 2/3s of an inning in one of those). Half of those came in that Milwaukee start where he gave up 6 earned and his only 2 HRs.

    Don't get me wrong, this is not a cherry picking exercise. All starts count. If we are sitting here in June and he's still going <5 innings in half his starts and getting shelled in a quarter of them, I'll turn up the concern-o-meter
    Agreed, and with a larger sample size we can have a better discussion around this. His current ERA isn't ideal, but you're right that it's mostly inflated from the one start. Lets get another 10-15 starts and then we should have a realistic pool of data over 3 years and 60-65 career starts where we can look at the bigger picture but also how he is trending.

    Right now its just such a mixed bag...HR rates are down, GB rate is up, K rate is up, BB rate is up, Hitter contact % up (slightly), swing/miss % is down (very slightly). Overall it's a mixed bag but the path for Hunter to get better seems to be there and we are actually seeing it this year early on. I just think we need to keep all options on the table as we get into September with this guy.

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  18. #339
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    He reminds me of a young Luis Castillo. It's always 85 pitches after 4 innings. It frustrates me watching it.

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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Greene is averaging 5.05 innings per start this year.

    The MLB average is 5.17 by my calculation (BR rounds to 5.2).

    So he’s just about average in the length of his starts.

    I’m sure Hunter aspires to longer starts, but it’s not exactly a disastrous record, over only four games this season.
    The true average ip for start is actually higher if you take out openers and bullpen days.

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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneinthBrame View Post
    The true average ip for start is actually higher if you take out openers and bullpen days.
    Ok, but the difference is not going to be major. Many teams donít use openers, and some seldom use bullpen days. And the last time SPs averaged 6.0 or more was 2014. So whether itís 5.2 or 5.4 or 5.5 for true starters, itís relatively close to Greeneís current number.

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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yep, they couldn't do much with his pitches but they won the battle of attrition. He needs to get some softer outs by allowing some of the fielders to participate
    You're not advocating a little pitch to contact, are you?

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  24. #343
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    You're not advocating a little pitch to contact, are you?
    A little in a big park wouldn't hurt.. but yeah be democratic!

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  26. #344
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Echoing a lot of what's been said so far, I would add that his secondary pitches must look nothing at all like his fastball coming out of his hand based on hitters reactions.

    In that Seattle game, they weren't even flinching at his splitter/slider/whatever. As the saying used to go, "they were spitting in it" which they can only do when they see/recognize a pitch very early.

    That definitely turns my concern-o-meter on and puts it in the yellow because you have a young talent with all of the resources available to him privately plus the resources of an MLB organization and together they can't work on the pitch shape/cone stuff to the point he can make even one secondary pitch look like his fastball enough to fool hitters....yet.

    He's just MLB average until he fixes the "yet" part. He's never going to be any better than that if he doesn't.

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  28. #345
    Member Dave C's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    Echoing a lot of what's been said so far, I would add that his secondary pitches must look nothing at all like his fastball coming out of his hand based on hitters reactions.

    In that Seattle game, they weren't even flinching at his splitter/slider/whatever. As the saying used to go, "they were spitting in it" which they can only do when they see/recognize a pitch very early.

    That definitely turns my concern-o-meter on and puts it in the yellow because you have a young talent with all of the resources available to him privately plus the resources of an MLB organization and together they can't work on the pitch shape/cone stuff to the point he can make even one secondary pitch look like his fastball enough to fool hitters....yet.

    He's just MLB average until he fixes the "yet" part. He's never going to be any better than that if he doesn't.
    This has always struck me as well. We know his fast ball doesn't have a ton of moment on it but he's still tossing it in the high 90's but no one seems late on it. Many times you see batters right on it speed wise. The breaking stuff often is the same way. Sure he gets swings and misses but we're not seeing batters way early or way late.

    We keep hearing of the other pitches yet we see less than 5 per start. The league goes up there looking slider-FB is seems. He needs to adjust.... he really needs to see the need to adjust. That's the corner he needs to turn.


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