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Thread: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Nope , I know Burrow but history tells us there is a very small chance for this statement to be correct.
    It's true that fans say this every year in every league that some dynasty is beginning to be formed and it never happens.

    But, this is Football, where the best Quarterback is worth more than anything and we have the best in the NFL and he doesn't have a screwed up head like so many do. He not only is the best physically, but he's the best mentally. And, our Ownership is doing everything the right way since the kids took over completely.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    The problem is also knowing Burrow (and others) are going to get expensive so players like Jessie Bates and Trey Hendrickson arent going to be around for the long haul.

    Now if they did what you said and picked an offensive lineman, it forces them this year to likely reach for Brian Branch in the first round to replace Jessie Bates where we already now have a second year Dax Hill waiting to take his place. Next year Murphy will likely take Hendricksons.

    The Chiefs also had an extra first round pick to play with from trading Tyreek Hill. Id argue that their late round picks made more of an impact than their first. We had several players drafted who had impacts just not on the oline.

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    Like I mentioned before the draft, that $14M price tag for Hendrickson in 2024 requires that they have a legitimate option (that means 1st Round talent on the rise) to go another route and to use that as insurance (just like they have in Mixon and Jonah this off-season) in case whoever they pick (Murphy) or already have (Ossai) doesn't pan out to be good enough that warrants they let Hendrickson walk (though, like Mixon and Williams, should they decide to keep him to the end of his contract, they'll receive quality draft compensation for him,...very good when it comes to Hendrickson). It's a great way of doing business under the Burrow/Chase/Higgins timeline as quality draft picks continue to come back in return to keep the pipeline of good talent arriving and while keeping the costs down in other areas with Day 1 and Day 2 draft picks.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    He missed the playoffs 7 out of 19 years in six more he lost the first game and 3 Super Bowls. He won 23 career playoff games. This does not fit the definition.
    By your definition, only Tom Brady had a Super Bowl window, and he was an anomaly.

    So much has to go right for a team to make the SB. Injuries. Footballs bouncing a certain way. Refs. Timing of facing specific teams.

    But when I think about my definition of a QB's Super Bowl window, or if he even has one, it comes down to one, maybe two things.

    1. Elite level of play
    2. Rookie contract

    QBs that are willing to structure their 2nd contract a certain way, are able to mitigate #2.

    If Burrow is willing to do so, then, ceteris paribus, Burrow's SB window should be through the life of his 2nd contract. If not, it probably ends next season.
    I believe there is a special place in hell for people that buy entities that others "root for" and treat it like any other regular business from a profit/loss standpoint.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Falcons Sign CB Tre Flowers

    May 8th, 2023 at 10:55am CST by Adam La Rose

    The Falcons have made another veteran addition to their defense. The team announced on Monday that cornerback Tre Flowers has signed a one-year deal. The 27-year-old received interest from the Panthers prior to the draft, but he will now head elsewhere in the NFC South. Flowers has logged 41 starts in his career, all but one of which came during his tenure in Seattle. A Seahawks fifth-rounder in 2018, he saw his workload change dramatically after his first two campaigns. Flowers’ playing time dropped in 2020 and ’21 as Sidney Jones moved ahead of him on the depth chart. That led to the Seahawks’ decision to place the former on waivers in October 2021. The Bengals took advantage of that decision by claiming him and using him in a rotational capacity during their run to the Super Bowl. Cincinnati was sufficiently impressed with the Oklahoma State alum that they re-signed him last offseason.

    Flowers played primarily on special teams during his first and only full Bengals campaign. He did add one interception and three pass deflections, though, and has considerable first-team experience dating back to his time in Seattle. It comes as little surprise that Flowers will not be returning to Cincinnati, though, as the Bengals have added Jones in free agency and fellow corner DJ Turner in the second round of the draft.

    In Atlanta, Flowers will join a secondary which has seen a number of additions this offseason. The Falcons signed Mike Hughes and traded for Jeff Okudah prior to the draft, moves which came after the big-ticket deal given to safety Jessie Bates. Atlanta also selected corner Clark Phillips III in the fourth round of the draft, giving them a number of options to compliment AJ Terrell. Flowers will look to carve out a role in the team’s new-look CB room, one which should enter the 2023 season with heightened expectations.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    By your definition, only Tom Brady had a Super Bowl window, and he was an anomaly.

    So much has to go right for a team to make the SB. Injuries. Footballs bouncing a certain way. Refs. Timing of facing specific teams.

    But when I think about my definition of a QB's Super Bowl window, or if he even has one, it comes down to one, maybe two things.

    1. Elite level of play
    2. Rookie contract

    QBs that are willing to structure their 2nd contract a certain way, are able to mitigate #2.

    If Burrow is willing to do so, then, ceteris paribus, Burrow's SB window should be through the life of his 2nd contract. If not, it probably ends next season.
    Exactly my point. The only qb whose whole career was a sb window was Brady. That is why it most likely won’t happen with burrow

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Exactly my point. The only qb whose whole career was a sb window was Brady. That is why it most likely won’t happen with burrow
    There's so many QB's who had a career window of being in the Super Bowl, I could list more than 30, but the list is so long that it makes no sense to even post it.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Exactly my point. The only qb whose whole career was a sb window was Brady. That is why it most likely won’t happen with burrow
    I would argue, when Ben signed his 2nd contract and made it a cap friendly one, he extended his window on through that contract.

    Was there any year when Manning was in his prime that the Colts weren't a threat to go to the Super Bowl?

    How about Mahommes?

    An elite QB + a favorable contract gives you a punchers chance at the Super Bowl, assuming lots of other things go right that every other team is subject to.

    That's the window I am referring to. There may never be another Tom Brady type of results. I still don't understand how he was able to achieve what he did.
    I believe there is a special place in hell for people that buy entities that others "root for" and treat it like any other regular business from a profit/loss standpoint.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Joe Burrow has been so deprived by playing a mere three preseason snaps in his NFL career that he is the game's most accurate passer of all time.

    So until the opening weekend of Sept. 7, expect to see plenty of Trevor Siemian and Jake Browning in the bid to be the Bengals' No. 2 quarterback. "I think those are three he wanted. I don't think they wanted to play him in even those three," Browning said Monday as the Bengals gathered for another week of workouts. Whoever wins the Burrow Backup Derby, it's the first time in his four seasons he won't have Brandon Allen as his No. 2. But Siemian's experience of 30 starts and Browning's record-breaking arm give them confidence they are well covered, as quarterbacks coach Dan Pitcher says, "God forbid if we ever needed them to." "We came out of this thing with what we wanted," Pitcher says. "We feel like we have two guys who are more than capable of being good NFL backups and executing. Now it's just on us to give them that opportunity and I'm sure both of them will do everything they can to take advantage of it."

    Pitcher has two guys who not only see the big picture, but have been in the big picture. Siemian, 31, started two seasons for the Broncos when he was first breaking into the league. Browning, 27, became one of the best Pac 12 quarterbacks ever at Washington (he threw one fewer career touchdown pass than Justin Herbert) after he compiled the most prolific prep passing career in California history. "Jake's a football guy through and through. Very, very smart," Pitcher says. "When his playing days are over, and hopefully that's not for a long time, he'll be an outstanding coach. He's got a long way to go before then." He says the same thing about Siemian, a guy already thinking about staying in the game after he stops throwing. That's a reason he negotiated his own contract this offseason. While Lamar Jackson brokered his own franchise deal in a blaze of buzz in Baltimore, Siemian quietly got one done last week with Bengals director of pro scouting Steven Radicevic.

    For the rest of the story and some more insight on Ted Karras (will never get used to not calling him Alex) and the Bengals' Punting competition...

    https://www.bengals.com/news/joe-bur...-jake-browning

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    So any predictions on schedule release?

    AFC South and NFC West plus Minnesota, Buffalo and at Kansas City.

    Prime Time Guesses:
    Ravens
    Steelers
    Rams (Super Bowl Rematch, Thursday night?)
    Bills (Return to Paycor after Hamlin)
    Jaguars

    I look for the Chiefs and 49ers to get 4:25 starts on CBS or Fox

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    May 11th will be when the Bengals will announce it.

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    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    There's so many QB's who had a career window of being in the Super Bowl, I could list more than 30, but the list is so long that it makes no sense to even post it.
    That’s not true. You have to go deep in the playoffs. You can’t miss the playoffs 7 times and lose your first playoff game 9 times and say this is a Super Bowl window. There is a reason Peyton was known as a regular season qb.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    I would argue, when Ben signed his 2nd contract and made it a cap friendly one, he extended his window on through that contract.

    Was there any year when Manning was in his prime that the Colts weren't a threat to go to the Super Bowl?

    How about Mahommes?

    An elite QB + a favorable contract gives you a punchers chance at the Super Bowl, assuming lots of other things go right that every other team is subject to.

    That's the window I am referring to. There may never be another Tom Brady type of results. I still don't understand how he was able to achieve what he did.
    Yes Manning was known as a regular season qb. He was 14-14 in the playoffs. I already said the stats above. I gave you Mahomes but his career is long from over. Some people don’t remember just two years, he struggled badly after Super Bowl loss and they were saying it was his downfall. I don’t agree with your definition, but that’s fine I need results not he is a good qb so he may win the Super Bowl. If this is the case you start including Herbert, Allen guys with no playoff success.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    That’s not true. You have to go deep in the playoffs. You can’t miss the playoffs 7 times and lose your first playoff game 9 times and say this is a Super Bowl window. There is a reason Peyton was known as a regular season qb.
    From 1999 - 2010, the Colts made the playoffs 11 times and won the division 8 times. They were a legit threat to play in the Super Bowl basically every year that Manning was there after his rookie season. They just happened to be playing at the same time as the greatest QB/coach combo in NFL history (which unfortunately the Bengals may also be dealing with in Mahomes and Reid). But every year they went in as one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. So yes, that whole 11 year time period was a Super Bowl window.

    There's a lot of randomness in the playoffs. Get there with a great team, and then hope you get the bounces to put you over the edge. Playoff games are often decided by random plays. If you look at the Patriots Super Bowls, almost every single win and loss was a 50/50 game. They dominated the Rams and were in control against the Eagles, but the Rams and Panthers game took last second drives, the Falcons SB required the greatest comeback ever, and the Seahawks SB needed an INT from the 1. Then with their losses, both Giants SBs were fairly fluky. The Bengals lost a SB because of a questionable late defensive holding call and a botched possession at midfield. And then lost to the Chiefs because of a bonehead penalty. The teams were basically even, bounces just didn't go there way.

    Burrow, and the Bengals front office, are putting the team in a position to be in the mix every year. Every year the Bengals are going to be considered one of the favorites to win the SB. Yes, we're of course dying to see the Bengals win it, but if they're in the top 6-8 teams favored to win the Super Bowl, then that's a Super Bowl window.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Burrow, and the Bengals front office, are putting the team in a position to be in the mix every year. Every year the Bengals are going to be considered one of the favorites to win the SB. Yes, we're of course dying to see the Bengals win it, but if they're in the top 6-8 teams favored to win the Super Bowl, then that's a Super Bowl window.
    100% agree. That's why it is called a "window." Doesn't mean that they ever go through it. You hope they do it at least once or twice.

    Atlanta Braves had an obscene stretch with Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz where they were World Series contenders every single year. They only won one, but their window was huge. You have to be content with that if you are a Braves fan.

    Big Red Machine had a similar window in the 1970s and managed to win two.

    Utah Jazz had a window with Malone-Stockton but they kept running into that same dude wearing #23 in Chicago. They still had a contention phase that was really awesome.
    “Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    From 1999 - 2010, the Colts made the playoffs 11 times and won the division 8 times. They were a legit threat to play in the Super Bowl basically every year that Manning was there after his rookie season. They just happened to be playing at the same time as the greatest QB/coach combo in NFL history (which unfortunately the Bengals may also be dealing with in Mahomes and Reid). But every year they went in as one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. So yes, that whole 11 year time period was a Super Bowl window.

    There's a lot of randomness in the playoffs. Get there with a great team, and then hope you get the bounces to put you over the edge. Playoff games are often decided by random plays. If you look at the Patriots Super Bowls, almost every single win and loss was a 50/50 game. They dominated the Rams and were in control against the Eagles, but the Rams and Panthers game took last second drives, the Falcons SB required the greatest comeback ever, and the Seahawks SB needed an INT from the 1. Then with their losses, both Giants SBs were fairly fluky. The Bengals lost a SB because of a questionable late defensive holding call and a botched possession at midfield. And then lost to the Chiefs because of a bonehead penalty. The teams were basically even, bounces just didn't go there way.

    Burrow, and the Bengals front office, are putting the team in a position to be in the mix every year. Every year the Bengals are going to be considered one of the favorites to win the SB. Yes, we're of course dying to see the Bengals win it, but if they're in the top 6-8 teams favored to win the Super Bowl, then that's a Super Bowl window.
    9 out of 14 years he lost his first playoff game. In the years you were talking about he lost 7 of the first 11 playoff games. That doesn’t scream sb contender sorry wand I love Peyton.I mean you can say what you want but it was clear at that time that he was a regular season qb. At the time people wondered if he would ever get to one. You can say yeah Brady, but no one expected him to win every year. Apparently your guys definition doesn’t match with mine which is ok. All ai know is Burrow better get one soon.
    Last edited by Rdirtypirates; 05-09-2023 at 12:49 PM.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    100% agree. That's why it is called a "window." Doesn't mean that they ever go through it. You hope they do it at least once or twice.

    Atlanta Braves had an obscene stretch with Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz where they were World Series contenders every single year. They only won one, but their window was huge. You have to be content with that if you are a Braves fan.

    Big Red Machine had a similar window in the 1970s and managed to win two.

    Utah Jazz had a window with Malone-Stockton but they kept running into that same dude wearing #23 in Chicago. They still had a contention phase that was really awesome.
    I agree but a prerequisite is to go deep in the playoffs. You can’t lose the first game every year and claim you are a sb contender. That’s like saying Dalton was I. A sb window bc he went to the playoffs 5 straight yrs.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part II: Post Draft Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    From 1999 - 2010, the Colts made the playoffs 11 times and won the division 8 times. They were a legit threat to play in the Super Bowl basically every year that Manning was there after his rookie season. They just happened to be playing at the same time as the greatest QB/coach combo in NFL history (which unfortunately the Bengals may also be dealing with in Mahomes and Reid). But every year they went in as one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. So yes, that whole 11 year time period was a Super Bowl window.

    There's a lot of randomness in the playoffs. Get there with a great team, and then hope you get the bounces to put you over the edge. Playoff games are often decided by random plays. If you look at the Patriots Super Bowls, almost every single win and loss was a 50/50 game. They dominated the Rams and were in control against the Eagles, but the Rams and Panthers game took last second drives, the Falcons SB required the greatest comeback ever, and the Seahawks SB needed an INT from the 1. Then with their losses, both Giants SBs were fairly fluky. The Bengals lost a SB because of a questionable late defensive holding call and a botched possession at midfield. And then lost to the Chiefs because of a bonehead penalty. The teams were basically even, bounces just didn't go there way.

    Burrow, and the Bengals front office, are putting the team in a position to be in the mix every year. Every year the Bengals are going to be considered one of the favorites to win the SB. Yes, we're of course dying to see the Bengals win it, but if they're in the top 6-8 teams favored to win the Super Bowl, then that's a Super Bowl window.
    I always thought the Colts success was aided (at least a little bit) by the terrible AFC South. They didn't have quite the dog fight that the AFC North had. Or for that matter the AFC West. FWIW the AFC East was pretty poor as well.

    If you get an elite QB, and Burrow is that, your window is always open. There will be times when smart front office decisions need to be made. You have to let some players walk, but you should always be competitive. With a healthy Burrow you should always have a very good shot at making the playoffs.


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