Reds Starting Pitcher Depth

[mth123]

Part of the beauty is that all of them (except "New Guy" and Ben Lively, who deserves to be on the list) have multiple options, giving them a ton of flexibility.

Lively will be 32 and had a 5.35 FIP. I'd keep him around because he's cheap, so he'd be a bullpen option who needs to win a job IMO. If he's on the list its at the bottom with Spiers, who he'd be competing with for a long relief spot (and both may get beat by someone nearer the top of the list who doesn't win one of the 5 spots on opening day).

[camisadelgolf]

Lively will be 32 and had a 5.35 FIP. I'd keep him around because he's cheap, so he'd be a bullpen option who needs to win a job IMO. If he's on the list its at the bottom with Spiers, who he'd be competing with for a long relief spot (and both may get beat by someone nearer the top of the list who doesn't win one of the 5 spots on opening day).

He's more MLB-ready than most of the guys on the list, but I agree that he shouldn't be handed anything.

[mth123]

He's more MLB-ready than most of the guys on the list, but I agree that he shouldn't be handed anything.

Assuming they do sign one guy for the top of the list, there are at least 7 guys ahead of him and if that gets them to June, a 3 or 4 of the others will probably pass him as well. He's in the mix the same way Kennedy was this year. When all other options are exhausted, then go to Lively. We need to remember that even that best hitters are out two-thirds of the time. In small samples, anybody can look really good. I wouldn't fall in love with a guy based on 10 or 15 starts. Lively is 32 and this is the first time he's had an extended big league run. I think the collective wisdom of baseball knows who he is.

[herbdizzle]

Count me as someone in favor of bringing Ben Lively back in a long man / swing man role. If you take away the 13 run shellacking against the Cubs where he took one for the team his ERA is 4.25 and WHIP is 1.30. He is a perfectly adequate MLB pitcher and I trust him more than several relievers and all the Brett Kennedys and Luke Weavers of the world.

[AlaskaReds]

Count me as someone in favor of bringing Ben Lively back in a long man / swing man role. If you take away the 13 run shellacking against the Cubs where he took one for the team his ERA is 4.25 and WHIP is 1.30. He is a perfectly adequate MLB pitcher and I trust him more than several relievers and all the Brett Kennedys and Luke Weavers of the world.

He has become one of the most underrated Reds this past season. Outside of the Cubs game, he was outstanding until the injury bug hit him. He'd be the perfect long relief option next year who can make a spot start in a pinch.

[mth123]

He has become one of the most underrated Reds this past season. Outside of the Cubs game, he was outstanding until the injury bug hit him. He'd be the perfect long relief option next year who can make a spot start in a pinch.

I hope they aim higher. Assuming they sign a starter and then have Greene, Ashcraft, Williamson, Abbott and Lodolo. That's six. I hope one of those guys gets the role you are talking about and Lively is pushed to AAA as insurance.

[Kc61]

If Reds are gunning for playoffs next year, they need a more experienced pitching staff. I wouldn’t worry too much about the exact rotation or the exact bullpen. Injuries tend to make those decisions for the team. I would just look to add more experienced pitching at a number of levels.

Those levels IMO are very good starter, BOR starter and/or multi-innings reliever, set up reliever.

I’d try to emphasize strikeouts for the pen guys and ground balls overall. Not that ground balls should become a fetish, but the Reds having a heavy fly ball staff in GABP seems unwise.

[AlaskaReds]

I hope they aim higher. Assuming they sign a starter and then have Greene, Ashcraft, Williamson, Abbott and Lodolo. That's six. I hope one of those guys gets the role you are talking about and Lively is pushed to AAA as insurance.

I don't disagree, I think it's getting safe to assume that one of those guys will be hurt at all times. If Lively is indeed pushed to AAA, the Reds had a heck of an off-season.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If Lively is indeed pushed to AAA, the Reds had a heck of an off-season.

Assuming they keep them all, I think he almost assuredly already is.

IMO:

- Greene
- Lodolo
- Ashcraft
- Abbott
- Williamson

- Phillips
- Richardson
- Lively

[AlaskaReds]

Assuming they keep them all, I think he almost assuredly already is.

IMO:

- Greene
- Lodolo
- Ashcraft
- Abbott
- Williamson

- Phillips
- Richardson
- Lively

I have Lively penciled into the bullpen in a long relief role who can make a start in a pinch. He's above Phillips and Richardson right now as a starter though.

[WrongVerb]

In my mind, Lively returns in the same role -- a veteran who can come up and stabilize the rotation for a few weeks to a few months.

[Kingspoint]

When you place Sonny Gray at the top of all of this, what happens?

[Kingspoint]

Yes. This team doesn't have a 1 or a 2. Maybe if you do the simple calculation and divide into chunks of 30, but we all know that about half the guys making starts today are guys teams would rather not give the ball to. I figure there are about 10 number 1s, 20 number 2s, another 40 or so 3s and 4s. Everybody else is somebody you'd rather not make any starts.

On the Reds staff, I consider Greene and Abbott number 3s at best. Ashcraft and Williamson probably numbers 4s. Lodolo is nothing more than a candidate at this point. The rest are minor leaguers (Phillips, Richardson) or relievers making spot starts (Spiers, Lively, Stoudt, etc.). This team needs somebody at least as good as Greene, but probably better. Let the guys at the bottom part of the rotation sort it out with performance and the losers of the competition can be depth options in long relief or at AAA, not guys to write into the plan before opening day.

The one place to not worry about having too many guys on paper is the rotation.

Bronze this and make it a billboard in front of the REDS' front Office beginning tomorrow and leaving it there through August 1st, 2024.

[UPRedsFan]

When you place Sonny Gray at the top of all of this, what happens?

You keep him away from the Cardinals and you compete with Milwaukee for the division.

Gray
Green
Abbott
Ashcraft
Williamson
Lodolo
Lively
Phillips