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Thread: The End of the Joey Votto Era

  1. #16
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    I’m as sentimental as the next guy, and Joey has been around as a Red for the entirety of my adult life. More than half my life actually, as the face of a team that a significant part of my identity and who I am as a person includes. I use that stuff as person milestone markers; pretty much every significant milestone in my life has been with Joey in the background as the star of my favorite team.

    But I do think it was probably time to go. A farewell tour would’ve been nice this year or something. Maybe as a bench bat next year if the dollars were right and he was open to the role change. But I can’t tell if he was. And I wouldn’t pay 10 million for a bench bat that might not be able to hit .200 anymore and has a significant chance of getting injured for most of the season.

    I am going to miss the hell out of the guy.

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  4. #17
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    I want him to finish his career here.
    “The crows seem to be calling my name,” thought Caw.

  5. #18
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Babe Ruth didn't finish with the Yankees. Willie Mays didn't finish with the Giants. Henry Aaron didn't finish with the Braves, and neither did Warren Spahn. And of course Tom Seaver didn't finish with the Mets. However, all the above are only associated by fans of one team each, which is really what matters.
    Also - who did Rose, Morgan, and Perez finish with? This is baseball. Since the mid-60s I've watched many a great Reds players finish their careers elsewhere. You just come to accept it.

    Joey will do what's best for Joey ... and I HOPE this organization will do what's best for the team. If Joey wants to play one more year wearing another team's uni, that isn't going to bother me one bit.

    I'm just not so sure other teams have a spot for this 40 yr old. Agreeing to accept the role of utility may make him more appealing on a 1 yr deal.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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  7. #19
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Also - who did Rose, Morgan, and Perez finish with?
    Rose and Perez both finished with the Reds.


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    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  8. #20
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Rose and Perez both finished with the Reds.


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    Most of the BRM ended their careers with the Reds. Bench, Perez, Rose and Concepcion all ended their careers as Reds. Griffey senior would have, if not for wanting to end his career playing with his son.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024

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  10. #21
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    I agree the Cast crew wasted his years and that’s on them and they get no forgiveness for that.

    I’m also a Reds fan and if he does not want to come back for some of the reasons stated in other posts you just have to move on. If I could from Pete leaving I can for Joey. I’m a Reds fan.

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  12. #22
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    I agree the Cast crew wasted his years and that’s on them and they get no forgiveness for that.

    I’m also a Reds fan and if he does not want to come back for some of the reasons stated in other posts you just have to move on. If I could from Pete leaving I can for Joey. I’m a Reds fan.
    Pete actually left in a very obnoxious an ungracious way.

    It is the middle of last week, and in the exercise room adjacent to the Cincinnati Reds' locker room, 37-year-old Pete Rose is mugging for the camera. Over his stocky frame he wears a T shirt similar to the ones he gave President Carter's Softball team during a recent visit to the White House. Across the back of the shirt in bold lettering is written: PETE ROSE—3,000—HUSTLE MADE IT HAPPEN. Rose likes being photographed. A vain man without a trace of self-consciousness, secure in his image, Rose is the Muhammad Ali of baseball.

    On his head is a Phillie cap. "What do you think of the Phils, Pete?"

    "They need me." Rose points to his chest and grins. Click.

    Someone hands him another cap. Rose removes the small, plastic insert from the front of the Phillie cap and puts it in the new one, so that it will sit on his head just so. "O.K., Pete. The California Angels. What do you think of?"

    "Gene Autry." Rose grins, baring the gap in his front teeth. "Maybe he'll give me his horse if I sign. What was the name of that horse? Champion? Champion!" Click.

    Next cap. It bears the interlocking "S" and "D" of the Padres, owned by McDonald's magnate Ray Kroc. "San Diego had two Pete Rose Days this year," Rose divulges. "Two. Ray Kroc likes me because I'm a self-made, aggressive guy like he is, and he likes me because I help his younger players. I go to the park early and work with them. He appreciates that." Rose grins and bites into an imaginary Big Mac. Click.


    He slips on the next cap, and a bystander says, "The Dodgers, Pete. National League champs. Los Angeles."

    "Ahh, endorsements!" says Pete. Click.

    "O.K., Pete, how about a frown?"

    "You want a frown? I'll give you a frown. Give me that Reds cap."

    Click.
    https://vault.si.com/vault/1978/11/0...e-surprisingly

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  14. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Most of the BRM ended their careers with the Reds. Bench, Perez, Rose and Concepcion all ended their careers as Reds. Griffey senior would have, if not for wanting to end his career playing with his son.
    Morgan wanted to play at home

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  16. #24
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Yes Pete was arrogant like he always was. The Reds also acted like he was done. Bat speed done. Too big for the clubhouse attitude. Howsman and of course Mr Wagner adhered to the Rickey philosophy of better to move on now than too late. Should have traded Driessen and stuck Pete at 1B. They just wanted to move from almost everyone that was part of that great run.

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  18. #25
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    It will never happen, but I’d love to see Pete Rose way renamed to Joey Votto Way.


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    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  20. #26
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Big shame we couldn't get him a deep playoff run, let alone a championship.

    Having played 17 seasons in Cincinnati, there's no doubt he's a Reds all-time great. I know people dislike WAR, but using it as a lens, his 58.3 puts him 6th all-time on the Reds, behind Rose (76.2), Bench (74.8), Larkin (67.0), McPhee (62.7), and Robinson (59.6) -- just ahead of Joe Morgan (57.2). He deserves a statue, no doubt.

    But I think he'll always be a tricky case for the history books. His talent was so peculiar. Votto was elite at precisely two rather unsexy things: Working counts and not hitting pop-ups. Of the 463 guys with 6000+ PA (~10 yrs) since 1950, his 15.6 BB% is 11th (just a tick behind Adam Dunn and ahead of Lance Berkman). His .335 BABIP is 25th. It's a pretty unique combination of skills. He's the only guy on the list with a 15% walk rate and .325 BABIP.

    He made contact at an above average rate, but he was no Boggs, Ichiro, or Gwynn. He had good power when he connected too, but he was no Thome, Manny, or Ortiz (same ISO as Granderson and Salmon).

    Meanwhile, he wasn't a poor defender and baserunner, which suppresses his overall value. His 58.3 fWAR put him in the company of Lance Berkman (55.9), Fred McGriff (56.9), John Olerud (57.3), and Bobby Abreu (59.8). He'll be surpassed by contemporaries like Paul Goldschmidt and Freddie Freeman. While I know most around here will peg him as an easy HoFer, by the numbers, I'm not so sure -- at least not if you're dismissive of McGriff, Olerud, and Abreu.

    Of course, it's not the Hall of WAR and his intangibles are off the charts. He's a HoF person, a HoF character, and the anchor of the Reds of my adult life. He will be sorely missed. I hope he gets a plaque in Cooperstown when its all said and done.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-05-2023 at 03:21 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  22. #27
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post

    Of course, it's not the Hall of WAR and his intangibles are off the charts. He's a HoF person, a HoF character, and the anchor of the Reds of my adult life. He will be sorely missed. I hope he gets a plaque in Cooperstown when its all said and done.

    Harold Baines and his 37 bWAR is in the Hall, Joey will get in one way or the other.

  23. #28
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Pete actually left in a very obnoxious an ungracious way.



    https://vault.si.com/vault/1978/11/0...e-surprisingly
    And the point? Do you think that made it easier for us to watch him leave? HELL NO!!! Rose was the most difficult loss of a player in Reds history. Seeing Rose play in another uniform was just mind-blowing. Votto playing for another team, especially since his tank is almost empty(Rose's wasn't) is not nearly as shocking.

    Rose left because Dick Wagner and the bunch did not want to pay him close to the going rate for a player of Pete's worth. I don't blame him one bit for sticking the kind of money he can get elsewhere in the Reds face.

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  25. #29
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    And the point? Do you think that made it easier for us to watch him leave? HELL NO!!! Rose was the most difficult loss of a player in Reds history. Seeing Rose play in another uniform was just mind-blowing. Votto playing for another team, especially since his tank is almost empty(Rose's wasn't) is not nearly as shocking.

    Rose left because Dick Wagner and the bunch did not want to pay him close to the going rate for a player of Pete's worth. I don't blame him one bit for sticking the kind of money he can get elsewhere in the Reds face.
    I thought it sucked myself

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  27. #30
    Member OldFashionedRed's Avatar
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    Re: The End of the Joey Votto Era

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    It will never happen, but I’d love to see Pete Rose way renamed to Joey Votto Way.


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    Absolutely not, IMO. No way do you get rid of Pete Rose Way, but there needs to be something there named after Votto.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo


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