The End of the Joey Votto Era

[LiferJim]

I can’t believe people are still whimpering about a silly poll


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[fondfoat]

I can’t believe people are still whimpering about a silly poll


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Like people whimpering about simple posts

[LiferJim]

Like people whimpering about simple posts

My apologies, as I wasn’t referring to you


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[RedsBrick]

Joey Votto is an All-Time great, and not just with the Reds. In baseball.

He's also an All-Time classy guy. So glad he was a career Red. He'll be a lifetime legend.

Father Time is undefeated. He's never lost.

Joey Votto has played in 339 games out of a possible 648 the past 4 seasons. His performance is declining, as it does for all (who aren't juiced - different era!).

I'd think most would be in favor of having Votto return as a bench player and a vet in the dugout, but is Votto down for that?

I'm not in favor of Joey being an everyday player, and the reality is he's been available about 50% of the time.

[LeatherPants]

Joey Votto is an All-Time great, and not just with the Reds. In baseball.

He's also an All-Time classy guy. So glad he was a career Red. He'll be a lifetime legend.

Father Time is undefeated. He's never lost.

Joey Votto has played in 339 games out of a possible 648 the past 4 seasons. His performance is declining, as it does for all (who aren't juiced - different era!).

I'd think most would be in favor of having Votto return as a bench player and a vet in the dugout, but is Votto down for that?

I'm not in favor of Joey being an everyday player, and the reality is he's been available about 50% of the time.

2020 only had 60 games, right, so it's really 62% of the games (100 games a year, which is pretty good for an older guy)

[missionhockey21]

If Votto can get a promise of an everyday spot, he should take it. How many of us would want the same thing? I suspect most if not all. Will he get that, or a platoon everyday, we will see.

Its not money, he has plenty of that. But he has one chance to be a MLB player and he is nearing the end of that. Whether that time is now, or a few years from now.

We know Votto, even at his peak, sometimes needed reps to find his groove (and then he could go supernova.) So, if he accepts a bench role without looking, he is essentially saying the end is here for him and he is okay with that. Bear in mind, he knows he didn't hit to his standards last season, but he also likely believes (and rightly so) that his swing was still a work in progress after the surgery and recovery. He also hit 14 homers in 200 ABs.

This is also someone who once was thought his power was waning, and then readjusted and showed he still was a threat. The phases of his career is fascinating, but what do you expect for one of the most cerebral hitters?

If I was in Votto's shoes, a person who won an MVP, and nearly a couple others, would I have the belief that if I worked hard enough, healed enough, and if given a chance I could show I am better than .200 a hitter? That I still have power, and if I am able to stay healthy and have an opportunity, I could maybe chase 400 before calling it a career? Yeah, I think so. Votto is not playing for a swan song, he is playing to earn a chance for another year at his dream. Because when its over, its over.

I hope Joey gets a chance and I'll be rooting for him always.

[RedsBrick]

2020 only had 60 games, right, so it's really 62% of the games (100 games a year, which is pretty good for an older guy)

Good catch.

The past two seasons it's 48%.

[Rojo Rijo]

Only regrets involving Votto...

1 - Not putting away the Giants in 2012. That year was their chance. Team was good enough to win it all.
2 - Not winning his second MVP in 2017. I still don't think people understand how good he was that year.
3 - Missing 150 games between 2012 and 2014. A lot of players miss time, you just hate to see when it happens to an all timer between the ages of 26 and 32, when they're usually at their peak. Votto's age 30 year in 2014 he missed 100 games, and he missed another 51 in 2012. You give him that peak time back and he's potentially over 2,300 hits, possibly single digits away from 400 HRs, and he's almost certainly sitting inside the top 20 all time for walks.

Absolute legend and one of the most polished hitters the game has ever seen. His attention to detail in the box was unmatched.

[REDREAD]

When you create a poll representing a false choice fallacy, you completely neuter your ability to draw any real conclusions from the poll results.

lmao.. still whining about this?
If you want the Reds to negotiate with Votto at a lower rate, the first step is to DECLINE THE OPTION.
So you should have voted for that option if you wanted to bring Joey back at less $$.
Don't worry, the sun will still rise in the spring if Votto is not on the roster. Everything is going to be ok.


You've got to let things go man. I mean, seriously, still complaining about a poll after all this time

[Chip R]

I'm more informed as a fan because of you, but this really changes my opinion of Rose. I always thought of him as someone who would do anything for the Reds.

Hell hath no fury like a ballplayer scorned. It's tough to blame him. He grew up in Cincinnati, had been with them since 1963. Won two World Series. Always played hard. One of the most popular players in MLB. Still produced. He was more than likely hurt - emotionally, not physically.

From the Reds point of view, as others have said, Howsam and Wagner were both Rickey disciples. Rose was 37 and would be 38 early the next season. At the time they only signed players to one year contracts (Davey was the first one to get a multi-year deal, IIRC.) They also did not sign free agents. There were reports (kept out of the press) that Rose was hanging around undesirables. Of course they attempted to re-sign him so that couldn't have been that big of a deal but that may have played a part in it. However, Rose was thrilled to come back in 1984 after Wagner was sacked.

[elrojo]

Only regrets involving Votto...

1 - Not putting away the Giants in 2012. That year was their chance. Team was good enough to win it all.
2 - Not winning his second MVP in 2017. I still don't think people understand how good he was that year.
3 - Missing 150 games between 2012 and 2014. A lot of players miss time, you just hate to see when it happens to an all timer between the ages of 26 and 32, when they're usually at their peak. Votto's age 30 year in 2014 he missed 100 games, and he missed another 51 in 2012. You give him that peak time back and he's potentially over 2,300 hits, possibly single digits away from 400 HRs, and he's almost certainly sitting inside the top 20 all time for walks.

Absolute legend and one of the most polished hitters the game has ever seen. His attention to detail in the box was unmatched.

I'll say it again. Without the injured Cueto there was no way the Reds would have won it all in 2012.

[Wheelhouse]

My feeling on Votto is that none of this is all that important.
1) he's a 40 year old player who has hit at the Mendoza line the past two years. Hang'em up.
2) waiting around for Joey to get his swing in tune has been a too long and dreary exercise the past few years.
3) he has a wonderful batting eye, but horrible baseball intelligence as a defender and particularly on the basepaths. He has been for the past several years the worst baserunner in baseball.
4) his HOF claim to greatness is OBP. But how valuable was a Joey Votto walk? He wasn't going to steal a base. He was unlikely to score if two singles were hit after his walk. Votto, for all his greatness in taking walks, only cracked the top ten in runs scored (for those who don't know, that's the stat used to calculate who wins the game) 3 times in his career, and was never ranked above 8th. Not so great for a player whose OBP rivaled Ruth and Bonds.
5) he has cleaned up his act in terms of relating to the fans and press, but there was a time when he was a real pill. And weird. For teammates, it's hard to relax and focus on the game with a guy like that around. It's the feeling you have at Walmart when someone is yelling a couple aisles over because their coupons have expired. Distracting in a clubhouse.
6) Joey Votto is representative of a Reds era I'd rather move on from. I know that's not his fault, but I don't have many memories of good baseball from this "Joey Votto era" that all this sentimental stuff is being said about.

So Joey, thanks. You were a nice player, and entertaining at times. But your exit doesn't merit all this hulaballoo and messages to the fans in hushed tones. Again, nice player, but not a Hall of Famer.

[westofyou]

https://www.redszone.com/forums/show...l=1#post465565

[LeatherPants]

A .294/.409/.511 144 OPS+ is a "nice player".

[SteelSD]

A .294/.409/.511 144 OPS+ is a "nice player".

Coming out in full force now, aren't they?