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Thread: Craig Counsell and Chicago

  1. #1
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Craig Counsell and Chicago

    This is a prediction based on feel and who I've observed Counsell to be over the years:

    1) It's not going to be as lovely for him as he thinks. Chicago is a tough town, with a tough fan base, and a demanding press. Sharp criticism will be leveled at him. Milwaukee was his home town, with a softball press (like Cincinnati). Counsell ruled the roost in Milwaukee. He will face a much more critical eye in Chicago and it remains to be seen how he will do when not the crowned prince.

    2) Chicago has a clubhouse with some big personalities that need to be dealt with, with lots of dugout chirping (very un-Counsell behavior). This may not be a match for who Counsell is and I anticipate some friction. This is not a team like Milwaukee with the biggest player being a choir boy (Yelich).

    3) Karma. Managing is something you have to do with your heart, and you have to sell the quality of your heart to people around you. This whole Ross thing is like beginning a marriage where the two people were cheating to be with each other. In the back of the mind, it's dirty business. Not good for a manager whose calling card is "playing the game right" and "character."

    4) Counsell is not the final piece for the Cubs to be playoff ready. They are losing their best offensive player, and possibly one of their best pitchers (Stroman.) He's not moving to a better team necessarily.

    Thoughts?
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill


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  3. #2
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    He went to the highest bidder. Being a fit wasn't part of the equation nor was the culture of the Cubs organization.
    Where we gonna go?

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  5. #3
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    I can't blame Counsel one bit for job hopping. He got a huge payday.
    That said, I agree with you, the job is going to be harder for him in Chicago.
    The Cubs are losing 2 important players, but I'm guessing that since they laid out the money to get Counsel, they are going to be spending a lot this winter -- more than the Reds surely.
    I'm guessing the Cubs have flipped the switch to "win now" mode, and it makes sense, especially if the Brewers might sell off a few players in trades to get prospects.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    Like all managers, he will be judged based off the actions of the front office and the performance of the players.

    The Cubs win the division and make a post-season run?
    Beloved. Insert "I Am So Smart" Simpsons gif.

    They fail to get the pieces they need this offseason or underperform and miss the post-season?
    "What are "we" (Cubs fans) paying this bum for? Where is Rossy?!"

    He had a blessing and a curse in Milwaukee. Ownership failed to seriously contend, so any division or postseason run was usually met with he achieved success or overperformed. Of course they also lacked (usually their lineup) to go deep, so if he wants to win a WS as a manager, it likely wasn't there. But he probably had a job there for life, or as much job security as one could have today outside of what Tito had in Cleveland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Let's stop talking about those people and shun them as they deserve.

    Joey is a Red for life. I really don't care if there are people that don't like it.

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  9. #5
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    I assume the Cubs don't think it's as easy as signing Counsell and then they win everything. So, who they add from here matters. They've got the makings of a killer defensive team (supposedly Pete Crow Armstrong catches everything), could be big spenders on arms this winter.
    Last edited by M2; 11-13-2023 at 04:03 PM.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    I'd probably make the jump if I were Counsell too. I get the sense that the Brew crew has peaked and is probably trending towards a rebuild phase in the near future. Good news for them is that they have some strong prospect coming through the system as well as some assets with a couple years of control still, but Woodruff is a 2025 free agent, Burns a 2025 free agent, Peralta is on the last year of his deal (plus an option year), Houser isnt nearly as big of a loss but also a 2025 free agent, and loses the 3.14 ERA Wade Miley brought this year. This team is going to have to basically rebuild their entire rotation over the next two years or hand out some serious cash to keep the strength of their team together. If they are under 500 at the break this year I could see them starting to sell a year early to get value out of some of these guys.

    The Cubs on the other hand are not in a great spot and are set up to lose some pieces, but also have the resources to spend in free agency too.

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  13. #7
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    He went to the highest bidder. Being a fit wasn't part of the equation nor was the culture of the Cubs organization.
    It was a cash deal for Counsel, as moving to an organization that doesn't regularly cry poor, what's not to like? Managing a MLB team isn't a marriage and loyalty to a MLB franchise will never be a two-way street (As any Red fan can attest)

    Good for him, I hope he does a Binny's Beverage commercial and the Reds beat them up during his tenure

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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    Cubs will do well under Counsell IMO. I hope I'm wrong. As others have mentioned, it's not like this was the final piece for them. More like the first piece (as far as this offseason). They have more money than anyone else in our division. They are about to use it. They will enter 2024 as the favorites in the NL Central ...

    Unless the Reds have a good offseason (which is entirely possible).

    Regardless, I like our chances. But the Cubs will be legit for sure under Counsell.
    Last edited by JFLegal; 11-13-2023 at 05:09 PM.

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  17. #9
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    The last time the Cubs went out and fired their current manager to get the best guy out there was when they hired Joe Maddon. That worked out pretty well for them. But it could also turn out poorly like when the Mets decided to make a big splash and hired Buck Showalter. That didn't work out so well for them.

    As for the Cubs spending money, I see a lot of Cubs fans on social media. They are not happy with the way the Ricketts run the team. They claim that they don't spend any money. Sound familiar? I think, with the exception of the Mets and Dodgers, every fan base believes their team's owners don't spend enough money. Now if the fans are right and the Ricketts are cheapskates, they may feel that hiring Counsell may be enough. The theory being that if he could do what he did in MIL with limited resources, think what he could do in CHI with a little more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

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  19. #10
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Krivsky View Post
    I'd probably make the jump if I were Counsell too. I get the sense that the Brew crew has peaked and is probably trending towards a rebuild phase in the near future. Good news for them is that they have some strong prospect coming through the system as well as some assets with a couple years of control still, but Woodruff is a 2025 free agent, Burns a 2025 free agent, Peralta is on the last year of his deal (plus an option year), Houser isnt nearly as big of a loss but also a 2025 free agent, and loses the 3.14 ERA Wade Miley brought this year. This team is going to have to basically rebuild their entire rotation over the next two years or hand out some serious cash to keep the strength of their team together. If they are under 500 at the break this year I could see them starting to sell a year early to get value out of some of these guys.

    The Cubs on the other hand are not in a great spot and are set up to lose some pieces, but also have the resources to spend in free agency too.
    Both Milwaukee (Peralta's got team options for 2025 and 2026 at $8M a pop) and the Cubs have playable hands. Milwaukee can see if some teams will overpay for their vets or take a run with/extend their current core. Given the number of well-regarded kids they've got on deck, it looks like more of a question of how they reload. If the Cubs keep Bellinger, they might be the favorites for the division. And don't sleep on them as an Ohtani destination.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: Craig Counsell and Chicago

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Both Milwaukee (Peralta's got team options for 2025 and 2026 at $8M a pop) and the Cubs have playable hands. Milwaukee can see if some teams will overpay for their vets or take a run with/extend their current core. Given the number of well-regarded kids they've got on deck, it looks like more of a question of how they reload. If the Cubs keep Bellinger, they might be the favorites for the division. And don't sleep on them as an Ohtani destination.
    Cousell knew Milwaukee was never going to spend enough to get them farther in the playoffs. I cant wait to see the Cubs first trip into Milwaukee, they are pissed.


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