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Thread: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Why do people keep going back to Andy Reid to prove a point? Reid did pretty ok with McNabb didn't he? And Mahommes is the exception to the rule too. Although it is worth noting, that player evaluation goes into a hands-on head coach's skillset too. Anyone can choose Burrow with the #1 pick. But Mahommes with the 10th pick? That's something else entirely.

    By the way, the Bengals picked right before KC that draft. Remember who they selected?

    John Ross. (TJ Watt was still on the board too).

    Yes that was before Taylor. But my point is, I wouldn't want to embarrass most coaches out there by comparing them to Andy Reid.
    He won division titles with Alex Smith

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  4. #362
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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post

    What you just described was the Bengals with Marvin and Andy Dalton
    Dalton's time with the Bengals was dynamic. He was a strong MVP candidate in 2015 I think it was, before he got hurt.

    Then sometime later, he was the guy who only threw the ball sideways, and did stuff like "throw the ball away to live another down" on 4th down.

    And the only time the defense was dominate during Dalton's time here, was the era of Atkins, Burfict, Jones. The rest of time it was the usual Bengals defenses, with "bend but don't break" as the high ceiling.

    I mentioned trading Burrow because for whatever reason, the Bengals have always been good at finding offensive skill position players. So what if they traded all the WRs and Burrow for defense and offensive linemen, and then just go find more offensive skill players in the draft. Play to their strengths, or whatever.
    "Lemonade requires a significant amount of sugar. Otherwise, you've just made lemon juice."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Dalton's time with the Bengals was dynamic. He was a strong MVP candidate in 2015 I think it was, before he got hurt.

    Then sometime later, he was the guy who only threw the ball sideways, and did stuff like "throw the ball away to live another down" on 4th down.

    And the only time the defense was dominate during Dalton's time here, was the era of Atkins, Burfict, Jones. The rest of time it was the usual Bengals defenses, with "bend but don't break" as the high ceiling.

    I mentioned trading Burrow because for whatever reason, the Bengals have always been good at finding offensive skill position players. So what if they traded all the WRs and Burrow for defense and offensive linemen, and then just go find more offensive skill players in the draft. Play to their strengths, or whatever.
    We're coming off a Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game appearance and people are longing for the days of Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis

    Dalton was never dynamic, and I liked Dalton. I thought he was better than people gave him credit for, but he was not dynamic. It seems to be pretty well proven at this point that you've got a much better chance to win the Super Bowl with an elite QB and a couple holes on other parts of the roster than an amazing roster and a deficiency at QB.


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    We're coming off a Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game appearance and people are longing for the days of Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis

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    Wut?

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    He won division titles with Alex Smith
    He did, and yet he couldn't get far enough with just good QBs. It took an elite QB to get him over the top. That's my point with Taylor. It seems silly to say that he has to have an elite QB to have a great team, because that's true of basically everybody.


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Wut?
    Bob said Dalton was dynamic and that it might make sense to trade Burrow and consider the roster building plan that they had when Dalton was QB...


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Bob said Dalton was dynamic and that it might make sense to trade Burrow and consider the roster building plan that they had when Dalton was QB...


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    He didn't just stop there he now wants to trade Burrow and all of the WR's for defensive and offensive lineman...then draft skill positions. What dimension of hell is this...

    Is Bob Sheed secretly Mike Brown...

    When you get an elite QB you hold onto him for 10+ yrs you don't want to get back on the treadmill of being mediocre and winning 7-9 games with the Andy Daltons and Kenny Pickett's of the NFL.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    We're coming off a Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game appearance and people are longing for the days of Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis

    Dalton was never dynamic, and I liked Dalton. I thought he was better than people gave him credit for, but he was not dynamic. It seems to be pretty well proven at this point that you've got a much better chance to win the Super Bowl with an elite QB and a couple holes on other parts of the roster than an amazing roster and a deficiency at QB.


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    Dalton was only as good as whoever he was surrounded with. He had to have top tier talent in order to be successful. Burrow OTOH can elevate and make players like Trenton Irwin look great. There is a difference.

    2015 will always be what could have been. I do think Dalton beats the Steelers but probably loses to Denver in the next round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    We likely wouldn't have been playing in the first round at all if Dalton doesn't get hurt that year; that was when the top two seeds received byes. We were an eyelash away from most likely being the top seed with McCarron in blowing a double digit lead at Denver in week 16 and losing in OT. If they win that game, they likely would've been the #1 seed even with the regular season Pittsburgh game they probably wouldn't have lost had Dalton not gotten hurt.

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    We likely wouldn't have been playing in the first round at all if Dalton doesn't get hurt that year; that was when the top two seeds received byes. We were an eyelash away from most likely being the top seed with McCarron in blowing a double digit lead at Denver in week 16 and losing in OT. If they win that game, they likely would've been the #1 seed even with the regular season Pittsburgh game they probably wouldn't have lost had Dalton not gotten hurt.
    I agree, no way they lose that Denver game with a healthy Dalton. The most likely scenario if Dalton stays healthy is losing at home to the Pats in the AFC Championship (as good as Andy was that year, I think Belichick would have eaten he and Marv up in a playoff game).

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Bob said Dalton was dynamic and that it might make sense to trade Burrow and consider the roster building plan that they had when Dalton was QB...


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    When I say "dynamic", I mean that over the course of his career, he was very good (2015), and very bad.

    And I did throw in a bunch of qualifiers there. As in, it would be incredibly foolish to trade an elite QB. Almost as foolish as it would be to not protect him with a good offensive line.

    It would be an interesting experiment though. To me anyway. To see what Burrow would fetch in terms of players and draft picks. And then to take a decidedly anti-Bengals approach and build through defense and the trenches.

    Sink or swim, at least all their eggs wouldn't be in one basket. Because every time Burrow goes down, the season is lost. And he seems to go down a lot.
    "Lemonade requires a significant amount of sugar. Otherwise, you've just made lemon juice."

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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    We likely wouldn't have been playing in the first round at all if Dalton doesn't get hurt that year; that was when the top two seeds received byes. We were an eyelash away from most likely being the top seed with McCarron in blowing a double digit lead at Denver in week 16 and losing in OT. If they win that game, they likely would've been the #1 seed even with the regular season Pittsburgh game they probably wouldn't have lost had Dalton not gotten hurt.
    That year was even more of a what if than the 2005 team where Palmer tore his ACL. That team was so good. I question whether Dalton could have taken them all the way, but he was really good that year, by far the best of his career, and the rest of the team was loaded. I was at the Pittsburgh game where he broke his thumb and it was so depressing.


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When I say "dynamic", I mean that over the course of his career, he was very good (2015), and very bad.

    And I did throw in a bunch of qualifiers there. As in, it would be incredibly foolish to trade an elite QB. Almost as foolish as it would be to not protect him with a good offensive line.

    It would be an interesting experiment though. To me anyway. To see what Burrow would fetch in terms of players and draft picks. And then to take a decidedly anti-Bengals approach and build through defense and the trenches.

    Sink or swim, at least all their eggs wouldn't be in one basket. Because every time Burrow goes down, the season is lost. And he seems to go down a lot.
    But what's the upside there? If I take OSU as an example, this year's team was better at almost every position except QB. OL was worse but running game was better with a healthy star RB. And yet last year's team had a significantly higher upside because of the superstar QB.

    I think you can build a good team without an elite QB, but you can't build a championship team without one.


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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    But what's the upside there? If I take OSU as an example, this year's team was better at almost every position except QB. OL was worse but running game was better with a healthy star RB. And yet last year's team had a significantly higher upside because of the superstar QB.

    I think you can build a good team without an elite QB, but you can't build a championship team without one.


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    I agree. I just think once that rookie QB contract is over and the QB is paid top tier money, it gets really tough. Sure there's Mahommes. But he seems to be like Brady, the exception to the rule.

    My concern is, once Burrow gets really expensive, and of course they'll have to pay Chase too... this team is going to be a bunch of rookies and warm bodies everywhere else.

    Another concern about Burrow, is his injury history. They are really starting to stack up.

    And yet another concern, is the whole "strictly shotgun" mentality, with his ideal preference being 5 WR.

    I just don't see those last two limitations with the other elite QBs of the league.

    That being said, this is the NFL, not Madden 24. I get that. Just pondering what-ifs in yet another lost season due to Joey Franchise's injury.
    Last edited by Bob Sheed; 11-30-2023 at 01:07 PM.
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    Re: 2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When I say "dynamic", I mean that over the course of his career, he was very good (2015), and very bad.

    And I did throw in a bunch of qualifiers there. As in, it would be incredibly foolish to trade an elite QB. Almost as foolish as it would be to not protect him with a good offensive line.

    It would be an interesting experiment though. To me anyway. To see what Burrow would fetch in terms of players and draft picks. And then to take a decidedly anti-Bengals approach and build through defense and the trenches.

    Sink or swim, at least all their eggs wouldn't be in one basket. Because every time Burrow goes down, the season is lost. And he seems to go down a lot.
    Three first round picks and David Putney.

    Seriously though, id probably ask for every pick the Bears have this year and two more first rounders. Ricky Williams plus an extra first rounder.

    Obviously would never happen. If it did Mike Brown might as well come out the next day and announce he has a handshake deal with the city of St Louis for a new stadium there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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