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Thread: Reds and India agree to two year deal

  1. #166
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    In this era? Guess again. Maybe in Wally Pipp’s era.
    yeah ... the players today are just woke and lazy. I wouldn't bother even watching it if this wasn't a leap year.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.


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  3. #167
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    For some of us, the significance of the article was India’s candid statements that he was bothered by this news, felt it was a demotion - and took it so far as to talk about “other teams” and “free agency.” Most players generally don’t go there.

    Since you apparently disagree, I’m glad you raised the comments that you thought were more significant.
    Here I was thinking I was agreeing with you...

    I did not weight the significance of each of the quotes in the article. I'm saying the problem is the weight being placed on the ones that match the priors that he's disgruntled and lacking leadership. The quotes should be taken in their totality. It seemed to me like he acknowledged the business side and complemented his teammates with different quotes within the same conversation. I find there to be a significant difference between "I could start on any other team but this one because there is so much talent" and "I wish I was starting for another team".

    Does he want to be a utility player? No. That much is clear. Does it make him disgruntled or a bad leader because he said it out loud? Not in my opinion.
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

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  5. #168
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Here I was thinking I was agreeing with you...

    I did not weight the significance of each of the quotes in the article. I'm saying the problem is the weight being placed on the ones that match the priors that he's disgruntled and lacking leadership. The quotes should be taken in their totality. It seemed to me like he acknowledged the business side and complemented his teammates with different quotes within the same conversation. I find there to be a significant difference between "I could start on any other team but this one because there is so much talent" and "I wish I was starting for another team".

    Does he want to be a utility player? No. That much is clear. Does it make him disgruntled or a bad leader because he said it out loud? Not in my opinion.
    That’s fair, but I’m not sure anyone said he’s a bad leader, or a bad anything. I happen to like him as a player and if healthy I think he’ll get back to form.

    But it’s a situation that has to be watched, that’s all. And Reds - having retained him rather than trading him - must keep him relatively happy or the situation can become a problem. I think they did well to give him that contract - smart in a number of respects.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-22-2024 at 07:06 PM.

  6. #169
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    That’s fair, but I’m not sure anyone said he’s a bad leader, or a bad anything. I happen to like him as a player and if healthy I think he’ll get back to form.

    But it’s a situation that has to be watched, that’s all. And Reds - having retained him rather than trading him - must keep him relatively happy or the situation can become a problem. I think they did well to give him that contract - smart in a number of respects.
    This was the post I was referring to

    Just pointing out that the supposed team leader is talking about how he would be a starting IF on other teams, and is already thinking about his free agency when he's no longer a Red. I don't blame India for not being thrilled about this, and I think Krall has handled it really poorly dating back to last trade deadline. The Reds let these rumors go on for months without saying anything to deter them to the point where India didn't know if he would even be a Red from one day to the next.

    This seemed like a direct shot at his leadership. If that's not what JCM meant by it, I'd be willing to hear that argument.

    I don't disagree that it's something to watch. I said as much in my original reaction to the article. I don't think we are far apart on how we feel on this.
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

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  8. #170
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    This was the post I was referring to

    Just pointing out that the supposed team leader is talking about how he would be a starting IF on other teams, and is already thinking about his free agency when he's no longer a Red. I don't blame India for not being thrilled about this, and I think Krall has handled it really poorly dating back to last trade deadline. The Reds let these rumors go on for months without saying anything to deter them to the point where India didn't know if he would even be a Red from one day to the next.

    This seemed like a direct shot at his leadership. If that's not what JCM meant by it, I'd be willing to hear that argument.

    I don't disagree that it's something to watch. I said as much in my original reaction to the article. I don't think we are far apart on how we feel on this.
    The assertion that they let this go on "for months" doesn't jibe with what I remember when Krall said well before New Year's that the Reds weren't interested in trading India. He did add "... at this time" -- but the rumors are the product of people who have no information propping up click bait. I don't know how we can continue to assume things as fact.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.

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  10. #171
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by j.u.FAIRFIIELD View Post
    The assertion that they let this go on "for months" doesn't jibe with what I remember when Krall said well before New Year's that the Reds weren't interested in trading India. He did add "... at this time" -- but the rumors are the product of people who have no information propping up click bait. I don't know how we can continue to assume things as fact.
    The trade rumors started in July before the trade deadline.

  11. #172
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    I don't blame India for not being thrilled about this, and I think Krall has handled it really poorly dating back to last trade deadline.
    Because Krall didn't trade India at the TD last season he handled it poorly? I don't agree with this. When an opponent was looking at that Red's roster last season, and the load of young talent they posessed, IMO India wasn't high on their list of pursuits. He would have been a "throw-in" in any package deal at most IMO. But Krall wasn't going to part with top prospects, who he sees as the future of this team, in a pitching market that was pretty tight. So no deal materialized.

    I had no problem with that position (looking ahead).

    I don't see India as having great trade value alone. We all know India's defensive liabilites, and that was the primary reason he lost his starting job to someone else. He's a player without a home. And what kind of message does it send to possible suitors when the Reds tell India (basically) - "You're not an infielder, so lets see if we can't find you a home in the outfield." And then there is his struggles with injury. He missed two months of the second half with injury (and is still dealing with it somewhat). IMO, those are dings in your resume. So while teams have shown some interest, nothing has materialized. And that tells me that Krall was either underwhelmed, or didn't believe it would improve the team in the area(s) needed.

    Krall's in the driver's seat. A good position to be in. Especially after signing India to that nice two-year contract. He's under no pressure to have to act on India, and stated he's not trying to shop him. Let them come to him.

    But India can serve a vital role on this roster as a "super-sub". And if he has a good '24, along with that contract, the Reds are in a better position to acquire something of better value.
    Last edited by GAC; 02-23-2024 at 05:41 AM.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  12. #173
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Because Krall didn't trade India at the TD last season he handled it poorly?
    He handled it poorly from a communications standpoint. It's public knowledge that India had to take a day off last year because the trade rumors were getting to him, and the Reds were radio silent about it. He just came out and said he didn't know if he'd be a Red from one day to the next this off season. So I'm not going to give Krall much credit for quieting down the rumors 6 months after they started when the damage has been done.

  13. #174
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Get traded/cut/demoted/replaced is as much a part of baseball as bases and foul poles. Yes everyone is human that is playing (in theory) but that stuff doesn't help a player when they telegraph their displeasure/angst/sadness as part of their press persona.

    Seems to be a lot of in-between readings going on here, stuff that will play out on the field and add clarity to the path (or chaos) I'm grabbing the popcorn myself

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  15. #175
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    He handled it poorly from a communications standpoint. It's public knowledge that India had to take a day off last year because the trade rumors were getting to him, and the Reds were radio silent about it. He just came out and said he didn't know if he'd be a Red from one day to the next this off season. So I'm not going to give Krall much credit for quieting down the rumors 6 months after they started when the damage has been done.
    Who cares? India isn’t really good enough by to fret over the damage. He’s a cool guy and can be a decent player but his bat is limited and his defense even more so. Let’s see how India responds, he’s been humbled with the reality of his limitations. Hopefully he has a good year, the Reds flip him this offseason and he finds a stable role in the bigs for a while.

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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    At the end of the day this bunch will go as far as the SP takes them. If 2 of Montas, Greene, and Lodolo have good seasons I like their chances of going to the post season.

  18. #177
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    To me, this deal basically says this…

    India’s trade value was very weak (understandably). So instead of trading him for peanuts, Krall would rather gamble a little bit and see if he can bounce back. Its a little risk but not an egregious one. At worst, you have some depth and a slightly expensive bench guy.

    I don’t hate it. And I say this as someone who supported trading him several months ago.
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  20. #178
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    The trade rumors started in July before the trade deadline.
    Started by people who never had to prove their claims. The Reds had no reason to comment on that.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.

  21. #179
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    He handled it poorly from a communications standpoint. It's public knowledge that India had to take a day off last year because the trade rumors were getting to him, and the Reds were radio silent about it. He just came out and said he didn't know if he'd be a Red from one day to the next this off season. So I'm not going to give Krall much credit for quieting down the rumors 6 months after they started when the damage has been done.
    Any ballplayer, including India, should know that being traded is one of the rigors of the job. If he let it get to him, then that's on him IMO. Just go out and do your job, and the rest will take care of itself.

    I had no problem last season whatsoever, going into the deadline, that GM Krall wouldn't give him some sort of guarantee he was/was not going to be traded. GM's don't show their hand. Even though he may not have been trying to trade India, he's not going to box himself into a corner like that when there were people inquiring about him. As well as our other prospects. The deal just wasn't there for Krall.

    I'm not advocating trading India. But if the deal is there? He'll be packing his bags. And that contract makes him even more appetizing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by villain612 View Post
    To me, this deal basically says this…

    India’s trade value was very weak (understandably). So instead of trading him for peanuts, Krall would rather gamble a little bit and see if he can bounce back. Its a little risk but not an egregious one. At worst, you have some depth and a slightly expensive bench guy.

    I don’t hate it. And I say this as someone who supported trading him several months ago.
    That's how I saw it too.
    Last edited by GAC; 02-24-2024 at 09:36 AM.
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  22. #180
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    Re: Reds and India agree to two year deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Any ballplayer, including India, should know that being traded is one of the rigors of the job. If he let it get to him, then that's on him IMO. Just go out and do your job, and the rest will take care of itself.

    I had no problem last season whatsoever, going into the deadline, that GM Krall wouldn't give him some sort of guarantee he was/was not going to be traded. GM's don't show their hand. Even though he may not have been trying to trade India, he's not going to box himself into a corner like that when there were people inquiring about him. As well as our other prospects. The deal just wasn't there for Krall.

    I'm not advocating trading India. But if the deal is there? He'll be packing his bags. And that contract makes him even more appetizing.
    A significant portion of players are subject to being traded. Most of them are throw-ins long before they even reach Double-A. Just amble through the BBref player profiles and see who drafted them and who they are with, and where they've been to get there. I can sympathize with India's angst over this, but yeah ... you're right ... he wasn't even close to the only guy to ever experience this. He is on the team until he isn't. After that, he's with a different team. I suspect the only player who was giddy at the deadline last year was Sam Moll.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.

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